Author Topic: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO  (Read 15633 times)

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 11:04:18 AM »
I disagree for the following reasons.

Firstly the wording of the article.

Maintenance of measures provided for protection of fire-fighters
38. —(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of fire-fighters in the event of
a fire, the responsible person must ensure that the premises and any facilities, equipment
and devices provided in respect of the premises for the use by
or protection of fire-fighters
under this Order or under any other enactment, including any enactment repealed or revoked
by this Order, are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an
efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair.

Secondly the statement of legal intent provided by the then ODPM.

(Paragraph 49 covers both article 17 and 38)

49.All precautions provided would be subject to maintenance and would be
installed and maintained by a “competent person” (as defined in the draft
Order). The precautions to be maintained should include any provided for
the use of fire-fighters in case of fire (e.g. fire-fighting shafts, accesspoints, fire-fighting riser mains).

Hope this clarifies the issue for you.

Kind regards

Jim

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 11:10:24 AM »
Sorry, I forgot Paragraph 8.

there should be a duty to maintain those fire precautions required
under building regulations, and other similar legislation, which are for the
use
and protection of fire-fighters;


Regards

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 09:28:04 AM »
Eventually found my copy of GN 1.  :)

Article 38 – Maintenance of measures provided for protection of
fire-fighters

The purpose of this article is to ensure that the responsible person establishes a suitable
system of maintenance for any measures (such as those under article 37) provided
for the safety of fire-fighters, whether under the provisions of the Order or any other
enactment. It covers, for example, fire fighting water supplies, access and hard standing
for fire appliances,
fixed fire fighting systems operated by the Fire and Rescue Authority,
some fire suppression systems and fire-fighting stairs and lifts if they have been
provided under the requirements of Building Regulations or any other enactment.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 11:22:46 AM »
Is Article 38 not for maintenance rather than provision?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 11:27:22 AM »
Yes entirely.

It does not mean that it cannot apply to access roads though.

In other words, if it has been supplied and is required then it should be maintained accordingly.

Jim

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 01:06:10 PM »
Why would access roads be necessary for the protection of firefighters in the event of a fire?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2010, 01:43:07 PM »
Maybe this explains it.

Article 38 – Maintenance of measures provided for protection of
fire-fighters
164. The purpose of this article is to ensure that the responsible person establishes a suitable
system of maintenance for any measures (such as those under article 37) provided
for the safety of fire-fighters, whether under the provisions of the Order or any other
enactment. It covers, for example, fire fighting water supplies, access and hard standing
for fire appliances, fixed fire fighting systems operated by the Fire and Rescue Authority,
some fi e suppression systems and fire-fighting stairs and lifts if they have been
provided under the requirements of Building Regulations or any other enactment.
165. However, it should be noted that many features are provided to aid fire-fighters in
protecting persons through fire-fighting or rescue. When considering non-compliance,
enforcing authorities should note that it must be shown that the failure to maintain
would affect the ability of fire-fighters to safely fight the fire or carry out rescues which
in turn places one or more relevant persons at risk of death or serious injury in the case
of a fire. Where a responsible person has failed to maintain measures provided for the
protection of fire-fighters enforcing authorities have a duty to undertake appropriate
enforcement action.
166. For an offence to be committed the enforcing authority must show that there was a
failure on the part of the responsible person, or other person mentioned in article 5(3),
to maintain the measures provided for the protection of fire-fighters and that as a result
the failure places one or more relevant persons at risk. It may not be suffi cient that the
failure to maintain such provisions only places fire-fighters at risk, unless by doing so it
also affects the safety of the relevant persons to which this article applies. However it is
very unlikely that in practice such a failure would only affect the safety of fire-fighters.

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2010, 01:45:18 PM »
I think the key bit is the carrying out rescues.

Clearly if the kit cannot be taken to the premises then the risk heightens in terms of communication chains and prolonged time of intervention.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2010, 02:02:14 PM »
Would the public road be considered part of access to the premises?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline FSO

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Re: Workplace Regs V RRO & ADB V RRO
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2010, 02:04:04 PM »
Yes, where appropriate. But usually out of the control of the RP.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 02:06:04 PM by FSO »