Manual operation of AOV in common area of flats

[xan]

Is there a specific colour for the 'breakglass' call point for a maually activated AOV?-I have seen a lot of yellow ones (or is that just the convention) but also red.Cant seem to pin down any guidance.

[kurnal]

I have had a brief look in several old standards and documents and as far as I can see there is no standard colour scheme, though I have not got access to BS EN 12101 to check there.

The historic guidance tended to be more along the lines of:
"The vent should be provided with a remote control mechanism located adjacent to the fire service access doorway and clearly marked as to its function and means of operation. The
mechanism should be capable of opening and closing the vent." (Extract from the now superseded BS5588 part 5 - fire fighting shafts but most guidance is similar).

I agree yellow is the most common colour but have seen green, white, blue. Red would be a bad choice though.

Anyone else know more?

[xan]

I have had a brief look in several old standards and documents and as far as I can see there is no standard colour scheme, though I have not got access to BS EN 12101 to check there.

The historic guidance tended to be more along the lines of:
"The vent should be provided with a remote control mechanism located adjacent to the fire service access doorway and clearly marked as to its function and means of operation. The
mechanism should be capable of opening and closing the vent." (Extract from the now superseded BS5588 part 5 - fire fighting shafts but most guidance is similar).

I agree yellow is the most common colour but have seen green, white, blue. Red would be a bad choice though.

Anyone else know more?

Thanks Kurnal,I could not find anything in BS 12101,and like you agree that red is not ideal at all,but seems little leverage to get one changed to yellow,just give 'good' advice

[kurnal]

If you identify the make of the call point used it is dead simple to replace just the outer coloured frame - just remove it as you would if replacing the glass and replace it with one of a better colour. I came a cross a red one on Friday within a metre of a red fire alarm call point. It was labelled with dymo tape but still a very bad idea.

[kurnal]

Can I broaden this topic with another query?

I am a little confused as to the recommendations of ADB, for very small blocks of flats. Paragraph 2.21e  recommends one of two solutions for staircase ventilation- either an opening window at each floor level of 1 sq m or a single openable vent at the head of the stairs which can be remotely operated from the fire and rescue service level.

Then Note 3 to diagram 9 modifies this for single staircase buildings with no more than 2 flats per floor, and if the flats have an internal lobby allows flats to open directly into the staircase. In this case an AOV is required to be operated by smoke detectors at all levels of the buiding.

I take this to mean that the smoke detection is in addition to a manual control at fire service access level, but see a number without  manual control or only at the top level. And some with smoke detectors only at the highest level.

I still see a number of new developments where manual windows are still used , and some with no ventilation at all being approved.

[xan]

Can I broaden this topic with another query?

I am a little confused as to the recommendations of ADB, for very small blocks of flats. Paragraph 2.21e  recommends one of two solutions for staircase ventilation- either an opening window at each floor level of 1 sq m or a single openable vent at the head of the stairs which can be remotely operated from the fire and rescue service level.

Then Note 3 to diagram 9 modifies this for single staircase buildings with no more than 2 flats per floor, and if the flats have an internal lobby allows flats to open directly into the staircase. In this case an AOV is required to be operated by smoke detectors at all levels of the buiding.

I take this to mean that the smoke detection is in addition to a manual control at fire service access level, but see a number without  manual control or only at the top level. And some with smoke detectors only at the highest level.

I still see a number of new developments where manual windows are still used , and some with no ventilation at all being approved.

As far as 'note 3 ' is concerned,a similar requirement does not seem to be in either BS5588-1,or ADB 2000 (unless I have missed it in both   ) so it seems it may only be a requirement in flats of that layout post ADB 2006(7).

[xan]

Can I broaden this topic with another query?

I am a little confused as to the recommendations of ADB, for very small blocks of flats. Paragraph 2.21e  recommends one of two solutions for staircase ventilation- either an opening window at each floor level of 1 sq m or a single openable vent at the head of the stairs which can be remotely operated from the fire and rescue service level.

Then Note 3 to diagram 9 modifies this for single staircase buildings with no more than 2 flats per floor, and if the flats have an internal lobby allows flats to open directly into the staircase. In this case an AOV is required to be operated by smoke detectors at all levels of the buiding.

I take this to mean that the smoke detection is in addition to a manual control at fire service access level, but see a number without  manual control or only at the top level. And some with smoke detectors only at the highest level.

I still see a number of new developments where manual windows are still used , and some with no ventilation at all being approved.

As far as 'note 3 ' is concerned,a similar requirement does not seem to be in either BS5588-1,or ADB 2000 (unless I have missed it in both   ) so it seems it may only be a requirement in flats of that layout post ADB 2006(7).

possibly explained by the fact that the 2006(7) edition no longer requires the fire doors to the internal protected lobby/hallway of the flat to be self closing?

[kurnal]

Yes it was a change introduced on the April 2006 edition. But the message is slow to get through to the builders and the Building Controls whether Local Authority or AIs. There a complete mish mash of things being put in. (or not). Perhaps when the ADB is next reviewed these paragraphs need review and should point more clearly to the standards required.

[wee brian]

The Smoke Control Assoc have been working up some guidance to fill in some of these blanks. I think it's imminent.

[kurnal]

Thanks for the tip Wee B

The guidance is now Published and can be downloaded here:

http://www.feta.co.uk/hevac/downloads/SCA%20Residential%20guide%20Final%20version%20for%20publication%20Nov%202010%20v2.pdf

[kurnal]

The guidance does not answer my current quandry. Can anybody help?

Numerous blocks of flats on the same development. All either 3 or 5 storey new build (2008 completion) and by the same architect and same builder.

All single staircase, lobby access to flats, 7.5m long lobbies,  with AOV in lobbies and smoke detection in each lobby controlling the ventilator. There is a 1 sq m colt vent in the roof of each staircase operated by the smoke detector in the lobbies. All good so far.

Heres the rub. Of the 13 blocks on site, some also have smoke detectors in the staircase some do not.  Those that do - the detector opens the vent in the staircase only. Those that dont- the  vent in the staircase is opened by the detectors in the lobbies.  Some have single detector at the base of the staircase only. Some have a single detector at the top. some detectors at all levels.

All have manual controls but sited in the central plant room not accessible to the fire service without knowledge and a key.

The fire strategy does not mention cause and effect. The fire alarm design document leaves the description and specification  of the system blank. The contractors have built it as per electrical spec plan and the BCO has approved as it is. Nobody wants to talk about it- at least not to me.

The new guidance document just recommends L5.

My gut feeling is that provided the staircases are maintained sterile areas the absence of detection in the stairs is not a problem, any smoke will come from the lobbies so the vent in the staircase will be open before the smoke can get to the staircase. Pretty well as described in 2.26 of the ADB .
Those that have detection probably dont need it so no changes to be made. But why was it put in there?

There are many other non ccompliance issues on this site re fire service access but thats another story.
Any opinions please?

[nearlythere]

The guidance does not answer my current quandry. Can anybody help?

Numerous blocks of flats on the same development. All either 3 or 5 storey new build (2008 completion) and by the same architect and same builder.

All single staircase, lobby access to flats, 7.5m long lobbies,  with AOV in lobbies and smoke detection in each lobby controlling the ventilator. There is a 1 sq m colt vent in the roof of each staircase operated by the smoke detector in the lobbies. All good so far.

Heres the rub. Of the 13 blocks on site, some also have smoke detectors in the staircase some do not.  Those that do - the detector opens the vent in the staircase only. Those that dont- the  vent in the staircase is opened by the detectors in the lobbies.  Some have single detector at the base of the staircase only. Some have a single detector at the top. some detectors at all levels.

All have manual controls but sited in the central plant room not accessible to the fire service without knowledge and a key.

The fire strategy does not mention cause and effect. The fire alarm design document leaves the description and specification  of the system blank. The contractors have built it as per electrical spec plan and the BCO has approved as it is. Nobody wants to talk about it- at least not to me.

The new guidance document just recommends L5.

My gut feeling is that provided the staircases are maintained sterile areas the absence of detection in the stairs is not a problem, any smoke will come from the lobbies so the vent in the staircase will be open before the smoke can get to the staircase. Pretty well as described in 2.26 of the ADB .
Those that have detection probably dont need it so no changes to be made. But why was it put in there?

There are many other non ccompliance issues on this site re fire service access but thats another story.
Any opinions please?

Sorry I don't have a contribution for your particular issue but this illustrates a typical conflict between BC and Fire Risk Assessments.
On a much smaller scale I have surveyed a new three storey Day Nursery which, only the day before, BC cleared. To circumnavigate potential BC and Planning issues this was built as a two storey dwelling, cleared by BC and then a change of use application for a three storey Day Nursery submitted which was approved by all.
I very strongly believe the second floor doors enclosing the stairway are not FR. So strongly that I have advised the owner that I have serious doubts they are.
So we have the frustrated owner with a completion certificate in hand listening to me casting doubt on the protection of the stairway.
This is a BC dept I have always had doubts about.
The solution was easy. I stuck to my guns and left him with it. 

[Phoenix]

I agree with you kurnal, the staircase detection is redundant if the only way smoke can enter the stairs is via a space that has detection fitted (particularly the detection at the base of the staircase!).  Someone might argue, 'what if some fire loading finds its way into the staircase - then the detection would be useful'.  That might be true, it might release smoke from the stairs and lessen the risk to occupants, but there shouldn't be anything in a single staircase so we shouldn't need detection.  Might some fire loading find its way in?

Stu