Pyroglass Fire Door

[nearlythere]

Has anyone ever come across a self closing fire door made only of fire resisting glass in a FR glass partition?

[kurnal]

Nope.

In the circumstances it was installed would it have required smoke stopping performance and how was this achieved?

[wee brian]

FR Glass goes a bit soggy when hot. so you will always need a frame

[SeaBass]

I have seen sliding FR glazed partitions used as doors where three of the four frame sides were hidden in recess's in the floor,  ceiling and wall but never a hinged frameless glass door.  I can't see how the gap between the glazing panels would be closed unless a frame of some sort were used.

[nearlythere]

Nope.

In the circumstances it was installed would it have required smoke stopping performance and how was this achieved?

This is a situation where the client (beauty sallon) has not protected a stairway to a lower ground flooor exit but wants to retain an open and uninterrupted access between the ground and first floor. A door with a hold open was suggested but he prefers not to have anything other than glazing forming the seperation. Not GW or CS.

Money may not be a particular issue.

Its just me at the moment looking for inspiration.

[kurnal]

I am interested in wee Brian's comment about the fluid nature of glass. Personally I've never seen (or perhaps never noticed) Pyro glazing fail in the same way I have seen Georgian wired glass slump and fall from its frame. I've also seen Pyro glass used in industrial furnaces both as a sight glass and to retain the heat between manipulation of product. Some of these furnaces were pretty meaty beasts though I don't know how the temperatures relate to the BS 476 test though the metal under treatment was glowing bright orange.

It would be interesting to know the difference in performance between the different types of glass in this respect.

[kurnal]

I recently worked in a new industrial building in which a staircase was entirely enclosed in plain toughened glass of 12 mm thickness. The glass did not have any fire rating and the glazing system was based on silicone sealant. The doors were traditionally framed with smoke? seals around the perimeter of the rebate.

There were alternative means of escape from each floor and the building was sprinklered. The approved inspector had accepted the design on the notion that the fire would be controlled by the sprinklers and therefore the temperature of the fire plume would be low but this was not quantified by the designer.

[nearlythere]

I recently worked in a new industrial building in which a staircase was entirely enclosed in plain toughened glass of 12 mm thickness. The glass did not have any fire rating and the glazing system was based on silicone sealant. The doors were traditionally framed with smoke? seals around the perimeter of the rebate.

There were alternative means of escape from each floor and the building was sprinklered. The approved inspector had accepted the design on the notion that the fire would be controlled by the sprinklers and therefore the temperature of the fire plume would be low but this was not quantified by the designer.

This looks increasingly a case which could have bypassed the BC submission process (builder of questionable shading) as there is precious little compensatory features I can see other than a couple of detectors on the ground floor. Can't really see this as being the solution as there are non in the stairway at any level but have come across very, in one case "extremely", questionable standards accepted by this BC department in the very recent past.
Probably best having a look at the BC history.

[jayjay]

I was involved in trying to obtain the same information some time ago for a Theatre.

The result was that there is no such thing as an all glass fire resisting door.

It was finaly agreed with the Fire Authority and Building Control that as the protection required was principaly smoke It was agreed that the doors would be armoured glass and fitted with smoke seals. It was not considerd likely that there would be any combustible materials in proximity to the doors that would result in high temparatures, and due to the high standard of fire detection, good managment and staff procedures all persons could be evacuated prior to the glass door being affected by an fire spread.
 

[Mike Buckley]

Whether or not it is relevent to this case, but I do remember limitations on the amount of glazing that could be used on escape routes principally to protect people using the escape route from the radiated heat coming through the glass.

[nearlythere]

Whether or not it is relevent to this case, but I do remember limitations on the amount of glazing that could be used on escape routes principally to protect people using the escape route from the radiated heat coming through the glass.

Where the limitations on the amount of glazing used not removed with the use of insulated glazing?

[Auntie LIn]

The questions that are being raised here should more correctly be addressed to the manufacturer of the particular type of glass that is being considered.   What works OK for, say, Pyran may not perform the same if you use another manufacturer's product.   If the manufacturer says you can have a complete sheet of glass which does 30 minutes as a door, and is prepared to provide you with evidence to this effect - go with it.
If not, don't touch it with a bargepole.

[Fishy]

I seem to recall that Avanti might have successfully tested a frameless fire resisting doorset & partitioning system that used Schott ‘Pyran’ glass.  See http://www.sasint.co.uk/partitioning_doors2.php .