Author Topic: Article 27  (Read 5418 times)

Offline stugood

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Article 27
« on: November 03, 2010, 08:47:39 AM »
Who is the responsible person in a PLC ?...is it the Company Secretary ? if not who is ? Many thanks in advance.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 08:55:02 AM »
It is the company.

Offline Demontim

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 09:20:04 AM »
It depends on the context.

It may be the company secretary if you were looking to serve a notice or require information from the Body Corporate for example, but alternatively it could the local manager or a service engineer.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 09:43:50 AM »
No. The responsible person is the employer where there is an employer. The employer is the company in the case of a PLC.

It would more than likely be the Company Secretary that any correspondence is addressed to. Notices are sent to the CS but the actual notice should be in the name of the PLC.

If there is a suspected offence then we should primarily be taking action against the company, and possibly individual directors/CS' at the same time depending on their knowledge of the offense. The same with local managers.

A service engineer will never be a responsible person. They can be a "person having control" and can commit an offence under the order.

Offline Demontim

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 09:55:04 AM »
Agreed the employer will generally be the responsible person, However, you also need to consider enfocement guidance note one:

39. In many cases there will be more than one person subject to the obligations of a responsible person for premises. The level of responsibility will vary according to the employment position (total responsibility for an employer) and the degree to which the person can exercise control over safety in the premises. This is a deliberate aspect of the Order to allow enforcement action to be taken against the person who is culpable and/or in a position to remedy contraventions.

40. In cases where there is more than one responsible person or more than one person with duties under the Order, it is expected that the enforcing authority will use its discretion in deciding what enforcement action to take and against whom that action should be taken. Enforcement action may be taken against one or more responsible persons. For example, if an employer has no control over the area or matter in question and a fi re precaution is not being properly maintained by a landlord it may be more appropriate to address enforcement measures to the landlord who does have control. However, action may be appropriate against more than one person.

41. Enforcing authorities will wish to consider the degree of culpability and the appropriateness as to the person (or persons) against whom any necessary action should be taken. For example, where an owner’s acts or omissions jeopardise the safety of employees, such as an obstruction to the means of escape, the employer, as a responsible person, must call upon the owner, who has similar obligations to cooperate and co-ordinate to do what is necessary in line with their responsibilities as responsible persons. Even so, despite the absolute duty of the employer, where that
employer has acted reasonably and can demonstrate that fact and where the fault lies with the owner it would be reasonable to consider taking action against the owner alone.

Midland Retty

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 11:52:05 AM »
As CivvyFSO points out there is often confusion about the role of the Company Secretary. Many people incorrectly assume that CS is the responsible person in a plc or limited company.

The Company Secretary is purely a point of contact which legal correspondance is addressed to, any enforcement action or legal notices are served on the body corporate.

Demontim then eloboprates on how the enforcing authority would decipher who is culpable / responsible for the commission of any offences found.

Offline Demontim

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 02:56:34 PM »
Excuse the lack of expertise in copying the hyperlink, but if you follow the link below it relates to an Alarm Engineer being prosecuted as the responsible person, though the article is less than clear whether the case has been prosecuted or is pending.

http://www.fia.uk.com/en/Information/Details/index.cfm/obj_id/15FB2680-430F-4736-87F9B840957C2647

Offline Wiz

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2010, 04:15:56 PM »
Excuse the lack of expertise in copying the hyperlink, but if you follow the link below it relates to an Alarm Engineer being prosecuted as the responsible person, though the article is less than clear whether the case has been prosecuted or is pending.

http://www.fia.uk.com/en/Information/Details/index.cfm/obj_id/15FB2680-430F-4736-87F9B840957C2647

Very interesting. The report mentions that generally such prosecutions were previously against the engineer's employer. This has always been a problem for employers; paying someone to do a job properly and then being punished when they don't!
However, unless the guy is self-employed, he will probably try to wriggle out of it with the normal excuses - lack of training from his employer, lack of resources from his employer, lack of time because pressure created by his employer! It'll be interesting to find out the result of the prosecution.

Offline footieboy

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Re: Article 27
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 04:43:20 PM »
The legal definition is very clear under Article 3 who is the responsible person . Those persons who have control can have the same duties placed on them as a responsible person but they are not a RP.

Other ways of clarifying are some of the absolute duties placed on the RP. i.e. must or where neccessary