Charges over Warwickshire firefighters deaths

[Wiz]

With no particular reference to this case (of which I know absolutely nothing) I am sad to have to say that I agree with Mike.

My opinion is that the justice system in this country stinks of unfairness and corruption. On every ocassion I have had to deal with it, I  have been left amazed at it's ineffectiveness and how it is strangled by the lawyers for their greatest profit.

Now, I'm not saying that it is the worst legal system in the World, because I have no experience of other systems, but it is a long long way from being anywhere near good enough.

If I was in the position of being prosecuted for anything, I would have no real faith that proper justice would prevail. History is riddled with examples of how our supposedly great justice system, obviously isn't.

[Mike Buckley]

Sam,

Yes I do believe my strapline, If you are looking for the truth then you are open to other ideas, views and arguements. If you believe you have found it then you cannot admit you are wrong. (end of philosophical discourse)

With regard to the courts, yes the British justice system is one of the better ones but it is by no means perfect. (if it was why do we have a  Court of Appeal?)

Whether or not the case will expose the failings of the British Fire Service is highly questionable, as it is the men who are on trial, not the Fire Service. I am not blindly loyal to the Fire Service and if the case does result in improvements then I will welcome them.

Yes the truth should be sought but I do not believe in this case that taking people to court is a good way of acheiving this. It strikes me that there are too many political agendas to do this.

[SamFIRT]

Mike

If you are looking for the truth then you are open to other ideas, views and arguements. If you believe you have found it then you cannot admit you are wrong. (end of philosophical discourse)

.... agreed, .........debate, critique and peer review are the best ways to seek the truth.

With regard to the courts, yes the British justice system is one of the better ones but it is by no means perfect. (if it was why do we have a  Court of Appeal?)

.... agreed

Yes the truth should be sought but I do not believe in this case that taking people to court is a good way of acheiving this. It strikes me that there are too many political agendas to do this.

....disagree. This is the way that H&S legislation works. (and also the (RRO) FSO which is based on it.)

[Steven N]

Faith in British justice-best laugh i've had in ages-sorry i shouldn't be so cynical

[William 29]

Several years ago a Sub Officer was tragically killed in a water incident trying to save a member of the public.  As a result improvement notices were served on the Brigade as they were will ill-equipped to deal with water incidents in terms of training and equipment.  Times have now moved on but a point of note is that the ACO Ops was the one in the firing line (who subsequently became CFO when it came to court).  I don’t see here how senior management cannot be involved, yes they may not have been there at the time critical decisions were made but the officers that attended were not responsible for writing operational policies and procedures for such incidents.

That said a very sad day as all have mentioned that these young lads were killed doing their jobs, I just hope the issue is resolved sensibly.

[Davo]

In mho training is the issue and not the actions of the crew.
We train our police officers up to the eyeballs and beyond, they need to be equipped to make decisions, and this is what the HSE document police version is all about.
In regard to operational info, as long as they combine what they are told and act in accordance with that training we stand by them, sometimes also even when they do something stupid like diving into water to effect a rescue we publicly back them, after all its what the public expect.
If there was a deficiency in info or training the higher ups should be looked at, not the poor stiffs on site.

In regard to British Justice, is it British any more?


davo

[Old Sub]

Halfway through the incident with only Watch and Station Managers in charge, I don't think so.  Easy targets though.  As said before, there but for the grace of god or whomever, it could have been any one of us.  I feel sorry for all involved no one goes to work thinking they will lose their life and no one goes to work thinking a colleague will and then to end up where all these people are is very sad.

Very true. I know we don't have all the facts but I find it hard to belive that Watch and Station Managers were in any position to cause the deaths.
Time will tell but I'm concerned for the future of our profession.