Prosecutions in schools under the RRO

[WG]

Hi

Can anyone guide me to a site or no of any enforcing authorities who have prosecuted a school.

Regards

WG

[CivvyFSO]

http://www.totalfireservicesltd.co.uk/school-fire-safety-prosecution.htm

[Speyside]

English figures for 09/10 for school audits

Satisfactory       Unsatisfactory    informal notifications   

2,758         1,909         1,769      


Enforcement notices    prohibition notices     No of prosecutions

58                  5                  1      

[SeaBass]

What is the source of these stats Spayside?

[Speyside]

Fire Safety Returns for 2009-10, broken down by FRA, are available in Appendix 15:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/xls/1723527.xls

[WG]

Thanks for that folks very helpfull

WG

[seth119]

I inspect schools all day every day what a nightmare, No money to carry out basic repairs and upgrades  Bs 476 etc a lot still have no passive detection and rely on type M systems lack of fire stopping in ceilings  along with lack of fire stopping in walls upto cielings etc most built in the 50,60,70 general lack of under investment in property protection. I have been involved in 2 large new PFI secondary school  new build projects one having followed the guidance and fitted a sprinkler system the other a £20m project was shelved to save costs on the sprinkler system ( Not to mention on average there is 38 arson attacks nationally on schools per week). The only thing that is going to change attitudes is enforcement through fines, because head teachers are robbing Peter to pay Paul etc. They are a nightmare I find the same faults year after year they should be more than one prosecution of schools under the RRO to date . Sorry to moan I love my job, but trying to get a head teacher to spend about £8 k on a L2 system with asset value of £500k is impossible.

[Speyside]

I inspect schools all day every day what a nightmare, No money to carry out basic repairs and upgrades  Bs 476 etc a lot still have no passive detection and rely on type M systems lack of fire stopping in ceilings  along with lack of fire stopping in walls upto cielings etc most built in the 50,60,70 general lack of under investment in property protection. I have been involved in 2 large new PFI secondary school  new build projects one having followed the guidance and fitted a sprinkler system the other a £20m project was shelved to save costs on the sprinkler system ( Not to mention on average there is 38 arson attacks nationally on schools per week). The only thing that is going to change attitudes is enforcement through fines, because head teachers are robbing Peter to pay Paul etc. They are a nightmare I find the same faults year after year they should be more than one prosecution of schools under the RRO to date . Sorry to moan I love my job, but trying to get a head teacher to spend about £8 k on a L2 system with asset value of £500k is impossible.

Hi Seth
Are you inspecting for life safety?  Big differences! I would suggest as the kids can’t wait to get out when the alarm goes; many schools are reasonably safe in that respect. I am guessing you are in the insurance game. Do you think the schools you visit could be putting pupils, staff and public users at risk? 

[wee brian]

There was an attempted prosecution a few years ago that was in the news. I think they tried to nail the Headteacher but the judge let her off the hook.

[seth119]

I look at both life and property risk basically as far as I know you can not get a better alarm system than the mark one human eye ball, and with a couple of hundred of them in the school in normal hours that’s a lot of detectors!.  However they is large parts of the schools unoccupied during normal hours ( not all classrooms are in use at once) you also need to think about how the school is used out of hours night classes or clubs along with  cleaners and caretakers working early or late in the day. These people are owed a duty of care under the HSWA and the RRO 2005. That’s why I think schools should come under the spot light a lot more.

[Demontim]

wee brian I believe the case you're referring to was brought by GMC. If memory serves it was to do with creating a storage area within an escape route, she was found guilty but recieved no penalty (presumably not in the public interest).

[wee brian]

In the one I'm thinking of the judge felt that it was a bit too hard for a head teacher to understand all this fire malarky so he let her off. Maybe it was guilty but no fine, my memory fails me.

[Meerkat]

This one?  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3708952.stm

[wee brian]

yes, that's the one

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/132/132345_schoolfire_heads_twoyear_nightmare.html

[Dinnertime Dave]

In the one I'm thinking of the judge felt that it was a bit too hard for a head teacher to understand all this fire malarky so he let her off. Maybe it was guilty but no fine, my memory fails me.

Looking at the date this is pre RRO. Would she get away with it now?