Gent S-Quad loop devices

[Davo]

Replacement L1 fitted in large police premises, I went to survey.



http://www.gent.co.uk/products/vigilon-loop-devices/S-Quad%20Overview/116/


You cannot tell if they are heat or smoke (these can be deactivated), nor can you tell if the plastic nose contains a strobe. ( I assume no CO element was fitted)
The sounder ring is clear, being similar to other fittings


It is impossible to verify that the correct requirements are fitted
I have to trust the contractor

DOH


davo

[kurnal]

Dont be down Davo your birthday and Christmas have come at once. sQuads are sooooooper and you will soon get to like them. Very clever technology  even though the vigilon panel is hard to drive. Have you got the  graphics pc based front end on it?

Most heads are full spec forward and reverse scatter optical, heat and CO and configured from the panel but you can print off a full address list and  config status.
If you have a heat only it will  have a black ring round  the lens on the bottom though I have never seen one of these.

Apparently CO versions have a gold ring but cant say I have noticed. Sensor sounders can have bell, voice or choice of tone. You would be wise to have a good walk round with all sounders operating as it is very common  to configure one or two with the wrong sound profile.

http://www.gent.co.uk/downloads/products/specification_116.pdf

[AnthonyB]

As Kurnal said, with Multi-sensors you need an address list, a simple job for engineers and we ask for all addressable systems a print off be kept in the fire log for addressable systems, helps for system auditing.

[David Rooney]

Surely you should be trusting the commissioning records and as installed drawings?

And if they aren't available creating merry hell ??

[AnthonyB]

Commissioning records? As installed drawings?

Sorry that made me laugh, but commissioning certificates are often useless on the 1% of times they are available and it's a rarity to find the as installed even in the new builds.

The only way to reliably comment on the suitability of a system in 99% of the broad type of bulidings we visit is by having to physically survey it, particularly if conventional. If it's addressable and there is a printout that's fairly recent it can save a bit of neck ache, but often you have to double check it to cover yourself.

Last week I visited a site that was listed as L3 on the paperwork, but in reality was actually an L5 with virtually no cover - fortunately I double checked on the survey.

[Davo]

Anthony

Got the as-fixed, hundreds of devices.

My query is for instance the detectors in the kitchens are identical in every way to detectors in the offices, would the printout list every bit ie smoke/heat/sounder/strobe? The device list shows them to have the same address

davo

[kurnal]

You need to be logged into the engineering mode to see the config details of each device. You need your  engineer to do it for you.

[David Rooney]

Commissioning records? As installed drawings?

Sorry that made me laugh, but commissioning certificates are often useless on the 1% of times they are available and it's a rarity to find the as installed even in the new builds.

The only way to reliably comment on the suitability of a system in 99% of the broad type of bulidings we visit is by having to physically survey it, particularly if conventional. If it's addressable and there is a printout that's fairly recent it can save a bit of neck ache, but often you have to double check it to cover yourself.

Last week I visited a site that was listed as L3 on the paperwork, but in reality was actually an L5 with virtually no cover - fortunately I double checked on the survey.

Well it was meant ever so slightly rhetorically and with a hint of sarcasm..... but in this case to be S Quads the system cannot be that old and should be fully documented.

I thought the whole idea of third party accreditation was to bring all the paperwork side up to standard, otherwise what really is the point of any of it apart from being a money spinner for those administering and selling certificates?

[Wiz]

...........what really is the point of any of it apart from being a money spinner for those administering and selling certificates?

Yes, that's my view. But they hide behind a thin veneer of supposedly raising standards.

If everyone does things properly, as they are supposed to do anyway, there are no standards to raise!

The only organisation I would deem as necessary, is a true cost-effective non-profit making system inspection organisation that was tasked with checking every system and sorted out the real cowboys.

[AnthonyB]

The print offs I've seen usually state the mode/type of device, however not 100% sure for Gent s-quad, might be worth asking on firealarmengineers.com as there are several Gent approved installers on that site.

[kurnal]

Anthony is right that the print off from the panel is limited. Configuration details are downloaded using the serial port on the panel to a laptop where they can be imported to a  spreadsheet.

[David Rooney]

The only organisation I would deem as necessary, is a true cost-effective non-profit making system inspection organisation that was tasked with checking every system and sorted out the real cowboys.

And isn't this the obvious role for the Fire Brigade ??!!

The problem we have now is that our potential customers don't believe a word we say, regardless of qualifications and memberships of third party schemes. So we end up in competition against one man bands who have never heard of 7273-4 or F-Gas Certification, detector head removal monitoring or search distances come to that.

Clients listen generally to who is going to cost them the least and promise them the most. While there is still no effective policing of the certification of new systems the cowboys can install what they want and sign their name on the back of a fag packet. The client is ignorant and doesn't care and no one is any the wiser till someone gets hurt and then guess what...... "we will all learn lessons from this latest disaster".

In the mean time the cowboy has ridden off to the Costa Del Sol in his new SLK and muggins lays awake at night worrying about connecting a latching relay to a sounder circuit.....