Author Topic: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets  (Read 7194 times)

Offline kurnal

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Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« on: May 13, 2011, 09:24:32 AM »
Heres a bit of a long shot- can anybody point me towards a reference source to show how old 1940s- 1950s rooflights on the roof of a wriggly tin shed are likely to behave in a fire(I think they may be GRP but cant get close enough to check)?


Offline jayjay

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 01:33:50 PM »
In a fire they will fail probably not long before the wriggly tin roof

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 05:58:03 PM »
I cannot go back that far but I have two documents from the early 60s:

"Design of roof venting systems for single storey buildings"

and

"Investigations into the flow of hot gases in roof venting"

These were first published as Fire Research Technical Papers 10 and 7 respectively. 

They don't refer to previous publications in their introductions and the papers, studies and documents they reference have dates that range from 1952 at the earliest.  I have a feeling that they and the material they reference may be the earliest that it's possible to go back when searching for formal guidance.  I may have access to some of the earlier papers but it would require considerable rooting around in dusty archives.  If it's important I could start making enquiries. 

I have to say that none of the referenced papers have names that imply that they had examined "rooflights on the roof of a wriggly tin shed."

Of course, I only have these two documents in hard copy but you could borrow them if you think they might be of any benefit.

Stu


Offline John Webb

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 08:32:49 PM »
According to "A short history of the Fire Research Station", work on roof vents started 1957 and resulted in Technical Paper 7. Work was also done on using PVC sheeting as a roof vent that softened and fell out - this was reported on in Technical Paper 14, published in 1966. (And both some time before I got there!)

I can only find references to GRP roof materials in very general terms regarding BS476 tests for ignition on the outside of a roof - nothing about how it behaves when it is subjected to a fire from within - which is what I assume particularly interests you?
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline kurnal

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 04:47:26 PM »
Yes thanks. I am working on a job for an airport where a large hangar is to be put to varied uses and whilst compartmentation is not practicable I need to protect the valuable aircraft from fires that could occur elsewhere in the building. Property protection issues only.  Just thinking down the lines of buying sufficient time to move the aircraft out within a safety margin. Radiation wall at low level and curtains and ventilation at high level are my initial thoughts for exploration.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 05:49:56 PM by kurnal »

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2011, 06:53:33 PM »
On the assumption that the roof is fairly high in this building, the smoke from a fire at floor level is likely to be relatively cool by the time it has ascended to roof level.  The size of the panels will play a part in their softening and falling out - the larger the panel the less resiliant it will be due to the stresses induced within its own structure by its own mass and consequential turning moments.  Small ones, like the typical 0.5m square ones you see so often in these buildings, would have little weight of their own to assist them in dropping out quickly when heated.  

I suspect that you would probably need a pretty large fire to get these panels to drop out and by that time a lot of the damage may have been done to the valuable contents of the building.  

You may be able to find data online about the melting temperature of the material involved (if you can establish the material!) but what you really need is data about how the material softens with increasing temperature and then, for an accurate model of the failure of these units, you would have to tie that data up with the size, thickness and mass of the units.  Also, you'd have to consider the specific heat capacity of the material and the means by which heat is transferred from the hot gases to the units as well as other potential simultaneous loads such as the wind.  It's all getting a bit complicated and I understand now why you asked your initial question.  Good one.

I further suspect that the model you're seeking doesn't exist but, having said that, I hope it does and I hope someone comes up with it.  It would be costly to develop now - it's almost bound to be cheaper and more effective to put in new vents.

Stu

  
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 07:51:08 PM by Phoenix »

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 01:24:49 PM »
Kurnal

You really need to know if it is GRP, as GRP is quite resistant to melting whereas simple plastic based products generally are not.

How about replacing them with ETFE? That stuff simply disintegrates at about 200 degrees C. I am guessing that you would have plenty of inlet air, and that should make smoke calcs relatively easy to perform with a sudden creation of vents when the layer hits 200 degrees. If you know the approximate maximum fire size, approximate fire growth rate, (fast/medium etc) celing height, potential vent size and inlet size, I have a spreadsheet I have recently created which I might be able to alter relatively easily to give an indication of layer temps, layer height and timeframes.

Offline Davo

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 02:11:37 PM »
Hi Prof


What you need to bear in mind also is that due to the age and effect of weather, they may be quite fragile and will not take the heat of new ones. Replacement would be good but not the top priority.
Same reason why buidlers throw away hard hats after a couple of years, there was a fatality where a brick was dropped and the hat split like an eggshell due to sunlight


davo

Offline kurnal

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 08:30:48 PM »
Thanks to all. Civvy I may be in touch, just putting a quote and proposal together on it at this stage.

Offline Tom W

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2011, 03:51:00 PM »
Any asbestos Kurnal?

Offline kurnal

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Re: Old translucent corrugated roofing sheets
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2011, 04:49:53 PM »
No sorry Piglet. You wanting some? I know a man..... ;D