Fire extinguishing systems for catering equipment

[deaconj999]

No one has mentioned the extract system yet, is there a PPM for filter cleaning?  I haven't come across an auto system that comes anywhere close to dealing with gunge and fat in the extract, at least with a class F and training, the operator has a slim chance!!

Yes, there is annual and sometime 6 monthly cleaning in place. But to the standard and adequacy is worthy of further investigation.

[Mr. P]

Another thought for the duct systems - are they fire rated and, are they configured to continue running on fire alarm activation? Can they be reset/controlled/shut down by FS crews? Compartmentation has been mentioned. More specifically - what if any 'hot' appliances (fryers/chips etc.) are used front of house where they are outside of the kitchen compartment?

[Psuedonym]

Most FS crews haven't got a clue about restaurant fire systems. Neither do most fire enginers or salesmen, risk assessors ("Oh I just tick the yes/no box") and niether do the clients that have them fitted. Nor the chefs who work within inches of the nozzles which is a bit worrying.

They are not a legal requirement in this country merely a recommendation although some insurers do require it - check.

I would advise you speak directly to an authorised distributor of a system (check out thier accreditation) or the manufacurer themselves (ps Chubb don't manufacture systems, we are an authorised distributor for Tyco the manufaturer of Ansul systems - (Chubb a UTC company provided from Tyco? ....won't bore you with the details);

Basics Regardless of system manufacurer:A compliant system must have all hazards fully protected with correct detection and protection throughout as per system design -  not the odd link which may or may not work. (Appliance protection regardless of location)
If your systems are not fully compliant with the relevant manufacturers' design instructions, your insurer will not cover you and the installer is liable.
Dependant upon the opening of an exhaust duct determins the nozzle quantity. Installed correctly, there will not be a spread of fire through the duct as the nozzles are designed to a specific parameter regarding nozzle type, location and quantity.  The plenum (area behind  the filter) is similarly protected and fitted with temperature rated detectors.  This provides 24 hours protection and detection.
Each appliance is protected at the type of nozzle at the correct height and in the correct location.Systems must be maintained (serviced) as per manufactures instructions to the relevant standards (UL300, NFPL 17, 17a, 96, LPS1223) - usually 6 monthly so as to ensure compliance and system operational levels.
Manual operation of the system is achieved with pull stations dependant upon manufacturer but a requirement for automatic and manual is a Standard Requirement.

HVCA TRA19 will provide standards for duct cleaning and is the responsibility of the extract system (eg restaurant) owner to ensure these standards are met.
You would be supprised at the standard of cleanliness within some of our hotels and some canopies are appalling.

Do your homework before issuing purchase orders to a keen rep.
 

[Psuedonym]

What was the rationale behind the installation of an extinguishing system which outweighed the provision of suitable portable extinguishing equipment and good training?

They ussually base it upon 24 hour auromatic cover, lack of risk to staff using the wrong extinguisher - see Sauchiehall St, cover of duct and plenum areas - especially due to grease build up following their lack of hygiene stanards. Cooking staff (KPs) will only clean the filters not the duct/s or plenum where the contracted ceaners will perhaps only be contracted for an annual deep clean for a busy cook line which creates a massive risk just to save a few bob.   

[AnthonyB]

One problem with fixed systems is the fact that they have to be carefully designed and installed for efficacy - not a problem on first install, but I have seen on several occasions where the layout of the equipment in the protected area has been changed thus rendering the system ineffective - no one considers the need to reconfigure the system.

The main reason the wrong extinguisher is used is because even so called 'experts' put the wrong type in! If we had rigourous code enforcement like in the US where the application of the NFPA standard means you can't install the wrong type or both the user and supplier get it in the neck, we wouldn't have as many problems.

[Psuedonym]

Agree with all AB, except that systems are fault reported it's a manufacturer requirement, on a six monthly basis during the maintenance service. If not, then the servicing company is liable.

The big issue here is that clients refuse to act upon the report so that time after time we report the same issues - plus additional as time passes by, just for it to be ignored. All they want is an upto date service certificate.
Believe me, there is nothing more frustrating than reporting the same issues. I won't drop anyone in the mire here but "Front of house" gets the cash as the present governments' and media fuelled insistance that the country reduces is debt, apparantly now gives firms the right to stop spending on anything they see fit - as many will be aware of here, which means I spend half the night rewriting the same reports.

Off to a major hotel in Glasgow tonight with six non compliant systems. More bloody paperwork. More faults ignored. More frustration. More lack of sleep tommorow in the digs as I have to leave by 1100. More 4 hours drive home half asleep. .......All for the client to ignore my advice.

We are duty bound to report faults be they with install issues or appliance movement if we didn't "consider the need" I would be out of a job and quite frankly would not even bother. But I do.

[Psuedonym]

Ansul R102 engineers' blog:

Well that was fun.

0600 finish. Non too subtle hotel staff in the digs wanting to finish early on a Friday and a phone call a 0830 means i'm grumpy, tired, going on a slow drive home accross Glasgow and down the M74 & M6 and ....oh .. nearly forgot. 5 out of the 6 systems are non compliant. Same issues as my previous 4 services and a couple of appliance changes complete with a snapped tension wire on a very dirty system replaced, lead to a busy evening/night.

Lets see how long it takes to get the upgrades 


I want an office job.

[The Reiver]

I have an office job.
Managing Ansul Engineers who won't get out of bed & get some work done in a morning.
 

[Psuedonym]

Hang on !! Where they on nights ?? At least our lot give you the odd hours kip you bloody slavedriver !!!! Strewth !! 

[The Reiver]

Keep 'em moving I say. Ansuls by night. Cans by day.
A static engineer is a dangerous engineer.
They may have time to stop and think. And you know what trouble that usually causes.
Anyways, they get them profitless socialist (Saturday) & religous (Sunday) rest days to sleep and such.