BS style certs for fire alarm sytems

[Mr. P]

For the fire alarm system designers, installers & commissioners out there -

If I wanted a fire alarm system would you be able to give me individual certification exampled in BS5839 for each part of the work i.e Design, Install & Commission?

[Wiz]

If you employed any competent person to design/install/commission a fire alarm system, they would obviously be able to issue  design/installation/commissioning certificates, as appropriate, confirming compliance (& highlighting any variations) with the recommendations  of BS5839-1 ; 2002 + A2 2008 upon completion of such works.

Excuse my ignorance if I am misunderstanding something, but I thought the answer was obvious.

[kurnal]

I would guess the point is that for the 75%? of alarm systems that are specified by architects and  installed by sparkies you may see an installation certificate if you are lucky.  Design and commissioning? Nah.

wider use of BAFE or LPC accredited companies would be the only way forward.

[Mr. P]

Wiz, you hit the good old nail square on the head. -competent-
Kurnal, You have also hit the nail...

My dilemma has been that I speciifed a L1 system and stated that for me to sign off I would require copies of the 3 certs. Between the works co-ordinators, architects &  contractors, there is a problem with them doing this. After a couple of hic-ups, the system meets requirements but they cannot supply me with duly signed certs by the appropriate people.

Thanks to you both for intimating I am still sane... have had some real bull**** excuses abuse whilst sticking to 'my guns' on this.

[Wiz]

Mr P. if your specification/contract included the requirement for the employee to provide specific certification and he does not do so, you will be within your rights to withold a suitable amount of payment for the works (if not all of it!).

Your next action could be to employ a third party to carry out the works not completed and countercharge the employee for the cost. Obviously variations from BS could be found and you are then in the situation over who will pay for putting things right.

Could get very contractural and legal, but sometimes that is the only way to go. Unfortunately, too many employers are too lazy/scared/incompetent to take the contractural/legal route and end up with a sub-standard system and no evidence of who was to blame for the sub-standard work. Thereby taking much of the responsibility onto themselves and hoping the worst will never happen.

[Owen66]

Assuming there is some form of recognizable contract in place, Personally, I would refuse to accept handover of the entire project until the relevant certificates are in place and advise the principal contractor that you will be invoking the liquidated and ascertained damages due to non completion.

It's amazing how quickly the documentation arrives on your desk when the principal contractor is about to take a big hit for no other reason than an inability of his subbies to sort themselves out (or the principal contractors inability to manage them)

Regards

Owen

[Mr. P]

Wiz, Owen,

Guys thanks for your contributions. I have made my recommendations and will not not be signing off until the certs arrive. However, it will be a drawn out job between client, contractor and management company, so, I can move on.

[Graeme]

Wiz, you hit the good old nail square on the head. -competent-
Kurnal, You have also hit the nail...

My dilemma has been that I speciifed a L1 system and stated that for me to sign off I would require copies of the 3 certs. Between the works co-ordinators, architects &  contractors, there is a problem with them doing this. After a couple of hic-ups, the system meets requirements but they cannot supply me with duly signed certs by the appropriate people.

Thanks to you both for intimating I am still sane... have had some real bull**** excuses abuse whilst sticking to 'my guns' on this.

good luck.
If the architech designed it-then all the best with the design certificate.
If an electrical contractor installed it-as above regards to install cert.

If the good fire company commissioned it-then you should have no problems