new UKAS-accredited certification scheme for Fire Risk Assessors

[Will Lloyd]

SP205 is purely and simply a company scheme. It is not intended to apply to individuals except in respect of their contribution to the competence of the company. Under the SP205 scheme the principal risk assessor responsible for signing off assessments and a number of employees and associates are  sampled - the SP205 process will include desk top assessments and accompanying one or more other employees whilst carrying out an assessment. They will sample the square root of the the total number of employees or assessors. If I employ 4 associates 2 will be reviewed.

The existing registers for individual assessors will continue. The IFSM register now requires all candidates to go through the FRACS system for individuals.

Hi Kurnal

I can't see that formula in the SP 205 standard. “Square route of the total number”

I thought it was at the discretion of the CB and some will use the appearance on existing registers as a grandfather clause. i.e. if you are on the IFE, IFPO or IFSM register you are deemed competent and no additional assessment is made. I think there will be variation from each CB and that’s a concern for me. But if they are accredited to 45011 the scheme will stand up and you will technically be getting the same assessment from each CB.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has had multiple quotes for SP205 was there variation in the assessment requirements from the CBs. I may be wrong in my assumptions so I would genuinely like to know if CBs are operating differently under this scheme.

The formula is in the SP 205-2 “Square route of the total number” which is the rules for CB's we have our own requirements that we have to follow and these are in SP 205-2
as for "a grandfather clause" well if you on one of the registers you will probably be picked last as we would look at non register risk assessors first
I can say that knowing the other two CB's that they will apply the scheme in the same manner that we do.
so its all equal for everybody 

[Kelsall]

Thanks Will I will dust off my copy of SP205-2

[William 29]

We have been informed this week that we are the 4th company in the UK to be awarded the BAFE SP205-1 certification via NSI.   

It was a taxing 2 days of on site building and office audits.  Overall I was very impressed with the whole process and it has raised several points in how we operate and how our systems can be enhanced and improved.  There were also observations on our FRA template which we have taken on board and will review in due course.

There were some healthy "debates" over interpretation of some of the Articles in the RRFSO, which has given me food for thought and will be fed back and discussed with others within the company.

I am just hoping that this has been a worthwhile process in terms of the business out there being aware of the 3rd party certification process be in SP205 or FRACS.  I haven’t heard much re the SP205 competency document that was being produced for the business sector?  Does anyone know where this is up to?  However what was interesting is that on the day we achieved certification we had a call from a large UK wide hotel chain that had searched the BAFE site for an SP205 company, so that was a positive start….time will tell.

If anyone is going through SP205 and would like further info about the process then inbox me.

[kurnal]

Congratlations William 29 and I would be interested in a chat and any tips on bringing the admin system up to speed! We have already changed a great deal over the last couple of years in order to comply with FIA requirements but I am all too aware that we arent there yet.

Can you allude to the issues over interpretation of the articles- I thought that generally matters of interpretation had settled down?

[William 29]

Congratlations William 29 and I would be interested in a chat and any tips on bringing the admin system up to speed! We have already changed a great deal over the last couple of years in order to comply with FIA requirements but I am all too aware that we arent there yet.

Can you allude to the issues over interpretation of the articles- I thought that generally matters of interpretation had settled down?

No problems Kurnal re the chat.  One of the audits that were done was a church and we debated the RP in terms of the Articles 3, 5(3) and 11. It was noted that in churches the RP can be difficult to determine.

It was also pointed out that a specific question needs to be worded in respect of Article 18 (Safety Assistance) to establish if a) the RP has suitable fire safety advice/support within the organisation or b) access to external advice.

Re Article 18 as I understand it the external assistance does not relate to the conducting of the FRA but advice regarding implementing the general fire precautions?

[kurnal]

[It was also pointed out that a specific question needs to be worded in respect of Article 18 (Safety Assistance) to establish if a) the RP has suitable fire safety advice/support within the organisation or b) access to external advice.

Re Article 18 as I understand it the external assistance does not relate to the conducting of the FRA but advice regarding implementing the general fire precautions?

Ho hum. 

I suppose we should make sure we seek evidence from the RP as to all the competent person(s) he or she has nominated to to assist them in undertaking the measures they need to take to comply with the requirements and prohibitions of the Order.

In practical terms this will include competent advisors such as fire alarm engineers, extinguisher technicians and fire engineers etc.  The RP has a duty to play a co-ordinating role between his competent advisors.  But then if you need to appoint people to advise because you dont have access to the skills you how can you be expected to forsee the implications of any interactions betwen them.

Are we making hard work of this?

[colin todd]

Yes Al, you are. It is the same requirement as occurs under the Management Regs and relates to advice to the RP re the requirements of the Order.