Auditing Fire Risk assessments

[lyledunn]

Environmental Health Officers in Local Councils in this part of the world (NI) are responsible for auditing fire risk assessments for certain types of premises. When I audit emergency lighting, fire alarm or electrical installation certificates I have, at least a BS for each to use as a yardstick. Is there a industry-recognised standard for these risk assessments apart from PAS79?

Lyle Dunn

[nearlythere]

Do you mean which code of practice for entertainment licence Lyle?

[lyledunn]

No, I simply mean that if they are to audit then they must have some kind of benchmark. It seems to me as an interested by-stander that fire safety is all over the place. In my own domain of electrical engineering services there are many sources of guidance from many different bodies but at least we can agree on a definitive single standard. 

[nearlythere]

No, I simply mean that if they are to audit then they must have some kind of benchmark. It seems to me as an interested by-stander that fire safety is all over the place. In my own domain of electrical engineering services there are many sources of guidance from many different bodies but at least we can agree on a definitive single standard.  

As far as I am aware Lyle NIFRS is recommending the CLG guidance for existing premises. In my  time we used specific technical guidance to The Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. Then we used what we referred top as the Yellow Guide whichI think was English guidance. Then came BS5588 was it Pt6??? (Can't remember off hand). Then we used CLG guidance. In there somewhere I think might have been a red guide, or was it orange?
Anyway it was very frustrating for use when making recommendations to Councils as to the standards we were to use. This was changed frequently by the committee of bosses and was especially difficult when we were told to use BS5588 for existing buildings. This created a huge problem when it came to exit widths which tended to be more than other guidance.  Some bosses thought it not unreasonable to widen a corridor by a few inches.
But as I said I believe CLG is the one as it is listed on its website.
New builds would be by 9999.

[nearlythere]

No, I simply mean that if they are to audit then they must have some kind of benchmark. It seems to me as an interested by-stander that fire safety is all over the place. In my own domain of electrical engineering services there are many sources of guidance from many different bodies but at least we can agree on a definitive single standard. 

And yes I agree it is all over the place as everybody and their granny seems to have a view on fire safety standards and is hell bent on writing a guidance document on it. But it isn't as bad as it was in the past.

[AnthonyB]

NI used to simply link to the DCLG guides,but now has started producing it's own via the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety that were first published around May.

They are being gradually introduced to replace the Englisg/Welsh guides, the first 4 cover:
-Open Air Events and Venues
-Theatres, Cinemas and Similar Premises
-Small and Medium Places of Assembly
-Offices and Shops

NIFRS haven't updated their fireSAFE microsite yet but do link to them here: http://www.nifrs.org/fire_safety.php?sec=26921&mdoc=1

[kurnal]

There are two issues here. The technical standards to be applied and the methodology used to undertake the assessment.

There is a wide range of technical standards that have been applied over the years. And just as in the electrical field you would not require an installation compliant with the 16th edition to be upgraded to meet the requirements of the 17th edition for the sake of it, it is relevant to have cognisance of the design standard that appertained at the time the place was built or converted.

In terms of auditing the assessment then we have BS PAS 79. The best and most widely accepted and used document setting out the methodology to be adopted. A sound benchmark for your audit. BUT the horrible report template that is packaged with it is not mandatory (thank goodness). So the auditor would have to interpret the information presented in the report against the methodology and the relevant contemporary technical standards seasoned with a dose of current risk assessment guidance.

What I am suggesting is no -there is no simple answer.

[nearlythere]

NI used to simply link to the DCLG guides,but now has started producing it's own via the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety that were first published around May.

They are being gradually introduced to replace the Englisg/Welsh guides, the first 4 cover:
-Open Air Events and Venues
-Theatres, Cinemas and Similar Premises
-Small and Medium Places of Assembly
-Offices and Shops

NIFRS haven't updated their fireSAFE microsite yet but do link to them here: http://www.nifrs.org/fire_safety.php?sec=26921&mdoc=1

Had a quick look through the "new" NI guidance AB and it appears to be basically the same as CLG but with NI references.

[Mike Buckley]

My personal method is to use the PAS79 framework i.e. the section headings and check the FRA against the headings, I expect the FRA I am auditing to have addressed the issues in most of the headings. Obviously some of the headings have greater significance than others depending on the site. A garage I would expect some mention of DSEAR, but if was missing from the report for a butcher's shop I would not be too worried.

The other things I would be looking out for are obvious repartition, if I think I am reading the same report for several different sites it would raise questions.

[lyledunn]

My query also extends to the qualification of the auditor to under take the scrutiny of a FRA. I know that some of the guys employed by Councils have only a limited understanding of even basic principles. I have written to Council asking them to explain the methodology that is to be used. That was several months ago. Acknowlegement letter was received but nothing since.