High handles in classrooms

[Haggis]

DDA issues aside, can anyone share their thoughts on whether high handles on general access/egress doors in schools are acceptable for fire safety?

Thanks as always 

[kurnal]

Presumably this is the common arrangement in which a handle high up on the door is used in concert with the normal latch. It a simple and common solution to many safeguarding situations where the persons at risk from fire may otherwise leave their safe are where they are supervised by their carers. Usually such individualls are fully dependent on the carers for their safe response and evacuation but you always have to consider other persons who may be present, eg visitor and brief them accordingly. In terms of safeguarding its about the oldest and the  least robust system available and there are many better solutions that are safer for all in case of fire and in respect of safeguarding but it is still widely used and subject to risk assessment, satisfactory in some circumstances especially provided there are no large numbers of public present.

[Haggis]

Thanks Kurnal

Yes it is the handle high up on the door is used in concert with the normal latch.

[Mr. P]

Commonly occurring in child care centres so the the little people cannot escape!

[Fire Monkey]

Kurnal - what alternatives do you suggest. I am doing loads of FRAs at schools at the moment and this keeps on cropping up.

[kurnal]

Mag locks ideally linked to fire alarms, sometimes with key operated ERU rather than the standard break glass, key held by teacher and room / exit route not used for ancillary functions.

[Dinnertime Dave]

I don't see a big problem here, staff led evacuation.

Are visitors really going to be left alone in this environment - I doubt it.

Security in general will be the fence around the school, I think the modern thought is that Reception and KS1 should have access to outdoor play.

With regards to safeguarding issues, doors that fail safe on fire alarms can introduce problems also. The position of the MCP within the front security lobby can compromise staff and child safety.

[kurnal]

Many schools have third parties conducting unrelated or extra curricular activities outside school hours from evening classes to sports clubs to council meetings. That's what I was getting at Dave. Also we must not forget arrangements for the cleaning staff.

We should pick our doors with care though most classrooms will not be affected by the above.

[Phoenix]

I'm with Dave, I cannot see a problem here.  Ok, it's crude and new buildings can do better with more sophicated equipment but for existing buildings it's simple, effective and safe (provided the supervision is right - spend more time worrying about that). 

As for other groups that might use the building, I'm sure they will be able to find the handle.  I do acknowledge, however, that if more than about 50/60 people might be present then this is not satisfactory for rapid egress.