Removal of Communal Fire Alarm Systems

[Suttonfire]

Hi All,

I would like to source some views on the most appropriate actions to take when coming across fire alarm system which has already been installed within communal areas, where it is not appropriate to the 'stay put' fire response strategy to which the building has been designed and does not operate AOVs or any other auxiliary equipment.

Would your views be that it is best for the system to be removed (reducing risk of unnecessary evacuations and saving on testing/maintenance costs), or that once the has system has already been installed/commissioned it is best to educate the residents concerning the most appropriate actions to take when hearing the communal alarm?

I have come across a few communal systems which have either been incorrectly installed by developers or following bad advice given in FRAs.

Thanks

[David Rooney]

Depends on the system and why it's "not appropriate" and whether it could be engineered to be "more appropriate".

Is there a heat detector inside each flat to trigger an evacuate throughout if activated?

If there are sounders in the communal areas and not the flats then all I can see at three in the morning is a lot of confusion as some people will undoubtedly still hear the communal alarm and wonder what to do.

And to think parents of kids in a 5th floor flat are going to stay there because a landlord has told them they will be safe for an hour is barmy.

If there is not a concierge then there is no point having an autodialler as it will be ignored.

If there is a concierge then he can confirm a fire condition and call the brigade. There would be no need for any sounders to be installed at all.

However, if possible I would still suggest sounders in the flats to evacuate the premises if deemed necessary by manual operation of a key switch or similar.

I don't see the point of any communal system that only has automatically started sounders in the communal areas and that can't be used to warn the occupiers of the flats that there is a confirmed fire and they need to get out.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Inappropriate systems are all over the place - And always in fault. Very few people remove them, the FRA I have seen mention them but never recommend their removal.

[Golden]

I've recommended their removal on more than one occasion and I've convinced the RPs by explaining the dangers of sending tenants into smoke filled corridors and staircases. The worst you could do in my opinion is to have a fire alarm and then tell the residents to ignore it, as David has pointed out above many of the systems fitted into communal areas don't have sounders in the flats therefore there is going to be confusion among the residents.

As well as sending the tenants into the smoke evacuation will cause problems to the responding fire crews who won't be able to pass people on the stairs.

[AnthonyB]

Funny coincidence, just came across a site just like you describe last week. Previously I have only come across the usual over specified L5/M instead of an L5 with the smoke management interfaced in but superfluous sounders and call points were included.

However this site had a completely self contained smoke management system with it's own control panel, smokes and manual overrides, yet also had a completely separate fire detection & warning system (MCP and smokes) that only covered the circulation areas, wasn't monitored  and serves no apparent purpose.

It's been causing problems due to constant vandalism and the fire service are getting brassed off as (unusually) some residents keep dialling 999 when it goes off.

As the structure satisfies stay put, the client has been advised they can (within reason) do anything to resolve this up to full removal as long as residents are fully appraised as to changes in cover and procedure. The fire service agree that they aren't bothered about it being there either.

[William 29]

I think its much simpler than that, we come across this all the time on new developments and existing PB blocks of flats.

1. You cant have a stay put policy and a common fire alarm as the two conflict, so we recommend either decommissioning of the alarm or removal and advise the residents accordingly as to why it is not required.

2. Or keep the alarm and operate a full simultaneous evacuation procedure (this would only work of course if the alarm can be heard in the flats) so option 1 is preferred in my view.

I have seen some housing providers keep the common alarm and notify residents that unless the fire is in their flat and they hear the alarm the are safe to stay put but I think that just confuses the issue as stay put is hard to explain to residents as it is.

[Mike Buckley]

Yes, I also came across a place, good for 'stay put' after the management company had upgraded the fire separation. Each flat had its own smoke alarms, the sounders from the communal system could barley be heard in the communal corridors let alone in the flats. The Fire Brigade was getting fed up of responding to the fire alarm.

The major problem was trying to get someone to actually decommission the system the companies were fighting shy of doing it.