Zone plans next to fire alarm panels

[Haggis]

Hi
What is the general consensus for the requirement to display schematic diagrams (zone plans) next to fire alarm panels (for the purposes of this query mainly for existing buildings and existing alarm  systems).
Taking into account the information given in BS5839 (Recommnedations 23.2) are they a requirement for small non-complex buildings that may have only 2-4 alarm zones?

I don't know how others find things but within the premises i access some have diagrams on display and in other's they don't (some have drawings / some just have text written on the CIE panel.

And what about premises with addressable systems where the panle will display exact locations rather than traditional zones?
Hope that all makes sense

As always the thoughts of the Firenet Community are greatly appreciated.

Cheers
HH

[colin todd]

Zone PLANS (not a chart comprising a list) have been necessary for compliance with BS 5839-1 for the past 25 years.  This is regardless of the number of zones and whether the system is addressable.

[Mike Buckley]

Going back to my days in the big red lorries, anything that helps clearly and simply identify where the alarm has activated is a plus. the problem with test messages on alarm panels is that they may be clear to the people working in the building but not to someone from outside. For example 'on the third floor outside MD's Office' may be clear to people who work there except that the alarm system was installed 5 years ago and the MD's has moved office twice and the single large office has now been subdivided!

[Golden]

Just to add to Mike's post re; big red lorries it is important to keep the zones and subsequent drawings simple - a few weeks ago I audited a new school with a small two storey block (two staircases about 60x15 metres) with 14 zones which I considered to be a bit excessive and confusing!!

[Haggis]

Thanks chaps

I did expect the installer to provide this info, i was just wondering how far back it was a requirement but as you said CT 25 years should cover all of the premises i enter through my work

Could the alarm systems have been commissioned / handed over for operation without a drawing in situ?

I am finding that an alarming number of systems (no pun intended) have no drawing. I do release some drawing may be removed by painters etc during refurbs and dont ever get put back but i suspect, for some, no drawing has ever existed.

Thanks again

Great site

[Messy]

Now the 'Big Red Lorries' aren't turning out to fire alarm calls and punters are being told to manage their own alarm actuations, I would argue that zone plans aren't quite so necessary where an addressable system is installed, as it may well be staff and not fire crews, doing the search.

Of course a plan to assist fire crews finding their way around the building is always useful

[AnthonyB]

I'd disagree to some extent - in larger buildings many staff may never stray beyond their specific work area, the staff room & the loos, you would need someone who is all over the place all the time and familiar with the site.

Address texts also leave something to be desired from time to time - always worth asking for a current print of the text labels during an FRA, you find some shockers from time to time!

[Fishy]

Thanks chaps

I did expect the installer to provide this info, i was just wondering how far back it was a requirement but as you said CT 25 years should cover all of the premises i enter through my work

Could the alarm systems have been commissioned / handed over for operation without a drawing in situ?

I am finding that an alarming number of systems (no pun intended) have no drawing. I do release some drawing may be removed by painters etc during refurbs and dont ever get put back but i suspect, for some, no drawing has ever existed.

Thanks again

Great site

Yes - probably never provided in the first place. 

As others have said, an addressable system may be more informative than zone indications, but they're not necessarily going to give an immediately comprehensible indication of where the event is - especially to fire-fighters who aren't going to be intimately acquainted withe the premises.  I guess that might be one reason why BS 5839-1 still recommends zone indications, even for addressable panels whereas the BS ENs don't? 

For me, though, in most simple buildings though it's a non-compliance with guidance it's not a huge safety issue because everyone should be getting out as soon as the alarm goes off, so in most cases it will simply delay re-occupation (as it'll take longer to identify unwanted alarms).  Could be a problem in more complex buildings with staff alarms, coded alerts, PEEPS or other emergency plans that rely upon knowing where the incident is, phased or progressive evacuation though, so I say essential in those cases.

[colin todd]

We took the trouble to pepper the 2013 edition of BS 5839-1 with additional references to the need for a zone plan. This was in response to the findings of the Sheriff Principal in the Rosepark FAI. Might be nice if people took some notice of it.

Dave with regard to your reference to red lorries not attending AFAs, you need to get out more.  Your erstwhile employer still go (albeit scattering invoices like confetti).  Could I also suggest a holiday in Scotland, rather than Arenal or whatever, as you would learn that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service NEVER fail to respond to an AFA in any premises or at any time of day or night.  The SFRS have this strange ethos of wanting to protect life and property.   From where they get the strange concept that this is a role for a fire and rescue service goodness only knows.  I assume its not from talking to chief officers in some English services.  If Scotland does not take your fancy try NI or wales, where the policies mirror those of Scotland.  Bring on devolution for England.  (Hope this post meets your expectation of the description of obnoxious and annoying which on another bulletin board, you once attributed to some people as their view of me.  You will be pleased to know that I have that framed and in my study, as I wear the badge with pride (second only to my SNP badge), coming from one of LFB's finest.)