Fire Retardent Paints in common areas of blocks of flats

[Suttonfire]

Hi All,

What are your views be on the necessity to replace existing paint in communal escape routes with Class 0 alternatives, if the type and number of layers of the existing paint can not be readily determined?

If the risks are otherwise low (i.e. adequate other fire passive/active fire protection measures in place, good housekeeping etc), and the paint visually appears to be in good condition, would it be sensible to replace or treat the paint when planned redecorations are due (particularly when dealing with a larger housing stock) rather than taking immediate action?

Thanks

[Fishy]

Significant issue that caused quite a lot of excitement a few years ago - see the DTI - sponsored guidance in http://www.salamanderfire.co.uk/documents/MLP_CODE_OF_PRACTICE_Final_DTI_version.pdf

[Suttonfire]

Thanks -  I have had a look at the Warrington Fire guidance, but can't say that it really gives me a clear idea on what actions to take in the circumstances which I have outlined. i.e. whether immediate action should be taken. I believe that it is unlikely that housing providers would be expected to retrospectively treat/replace paint on walls which are in good condition and in a relatively low risk environment.

[wee brian]

There lies the rub.

Burning Multi layered paint can provide a route of fire spread and enough smoke to cause an upset. But I would expect it to burn itself out before doing much harm (usual caveats apply).

As I understand it the problem comes with many layers of paint becoming so thick that they bubble off the wall when heated - the fire can then get behind the paint and it can get a tad lively.

Not sure how you decide where to draw the line mind you. But draw it with special paint!

[Dunbar]

There are a couple of tests that you can do; cross hatch cut test and the blister test. However if you call in the experts who sell the products they should do you a free survey to see what you have and if it needs treating. The main issue is adhesion which isn't always obvious from a  visual inspection. All paints contain plastics and the build up of grime and dirt between decorations can mean the paint doesn't adhere well and then you can get very rapid flame spread vertically but also horizontally.  There are some good videos that Tor show of some testing done on multi layer paint and it can rain sheets of burning paint if there is an issue. Take in to consideration security and risk assessment too but in older properties with many layers of decoration it would be worth getting an idea of the potential hazard. 

[Phoenix]

I would ask myself, how is the paint ever likely to get involved in a fire?

And, if it may become involved then what effect will it have? 

If the building is in an area where kids are always playing with matches, crime rates are high and bags of rubbish and other combustible goods are regularly left in the protected routes then I might consider it a reasonable assumption that a fire might occur in a protected route. 

If it is in an area with a low crime rate and the premises are secured against unauthorised entry and there is no known history of arson then it might be reasonable to assume that the risk of a fire involving a protected route is extremely low, indeed low enough to require no remedial action.  Bear in mind that protected routes are generally well trusted in residential buildings.

If the former scenario is the case and a fire in a protected route is reasonably foreseeable then you have to think about how much worse that fire might be because of the wall coating.  If the paint is in good condition, as you say it is, then I would consider it unlikely that it will contribute towards making the fire significantly worse than it would be anyway.  Again, it could be that no remedial action is required.

(Another matter to bear in mind is that sometimes these areas are carpeted with carpets that are capable for spreading fire and we miss that and get stressed out about a bit of gloss paint on the walls.)

Having said that, if you deem that no action is required immediately, it might be worth suggesting that at the next redecoration they use more fire safety friendly paint.

[Suttonfire]

Thanks Phoenix, that is pretty much how I would view it.

[Golden]

Having read this thread with interest I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the paint effect at Kings Cross fire - not quite the same as a block of flats but depends how thick and what substrate is used and I still find many premises with the woodchip/paint layers combination.