Audibility of Fire Alarm System in Sheltered Housing Scheme

[Golden]

And will only get more complicated due to high costs of residential care, a LA preference for 'independent living' and an ageing population.

[colin todd]

Tam,  could you re-read my post.  I did not say that it was clause 16 that did not apply to sheltered housing, it is the whole of BS 5839-1-the whole of it, Tam, complete kit and caboodle, that does not include sheltered housing within its scope.  Basically, you are looking in the wrong standard old bean.

Wullie, no doubt you have seen Tam's post re 45dB(A).

Tam, I am also now confused as to your position.  You asked who would sign their name to residents in flats not hearing the alarm, but then you say you accept that the SPL in flats should not exceed 45dB(A). These two statements conflict.  45dB(A) is about half as loud as normal conversation (or one millionth of the level of an LFEPA IO if you question his requirements).  How would the oldies hear that as you say they should?

[Tom Sutton]

CT the point I am trying to make is, if the units in a sheltered housing scheme meets a minimum 60 minute compartmentation I fully accept all what you say, 45dB(A), stay put policy, carry on watching EastEnders and part 6 applies except in communal areas.
 
But what happens when they do not and, part 6 does not cover this situation, Tadees has not said, maybe a full FA is required. You cannot make assumptions unless you know the full facts and maybe a full FA is required and all he wants to know how to make it heard by everybody at minimum cost.

[kurnal]

Tadees much as the words stick in my throat, an old Geezer called Colin  Todd wrote a book called "The design installation, commissioning and maintenance of fire detection and fire alarm system in domestic premises - a guide to BS 5839-6:2013". If you ignore the odd use of grammar in the title there is much good information in the book, in particular chapter 10 - "fire detection systems for social housing" and chapter 16 which addresses audibility issues. Most of the key issues are discussed, and it puts the early detection/ early response/ coverage/ audibility issues in context. The book is only about fire detection and alarm systems however so gives no guidance in respect of weaknesses in compartmentation in existing buildings.  

Now the author is wealthy enough so dont add to this by buying the book, it will be available free of charge in your local library.  

[AnthonyB]

Surely in Sheltered Housing, to which BS5839-1 is not intended to  the common system would not be a Pt1 system, but a Grade A system to the appropriate category and a local system to each flat would be a Grade D to the appropriate category.

If there are issues with the build you just specify the relevant audibility, coverage, cause & effect for that specific situation, but it doesn't mean you switch to Part 1?

It seems as soon as someone sees a 'proper' panel & devices, fire resistant cabling, etc they assume it should follow Pt 1.

[Tom Sutton]

Extract from BS 5839 Part 6 : 2013 page 18.

Based on these considerations, a typical fire alarm configuration might comprise smoke/heat alarms within each flat connected to the social alarm system. The provision of these ought to be in accordance with BS5839-6. A separate communal system will normally be necessary if there are communal facilities and/or internal corridors. This system ought to be installed in accordance with BS5839-1 for the appropriate Category of system (Category L4 or L5). No communal system is likely to be necessary in simple sheltered housing that, architecturally, is similar to a general needs block of flats with no communal facilities. If a communal system is installed, as a further enhancement, heat detectors, connected to this system, might be installed within the hallway of each flat [in addition to the smoke alarm(s) within the flat]. The heat detectors could be used as confirmation of a fire within a flat. Under these circumstances, it might be appropriate, according to the fire risk assessment for the premises, to evacuate adjacent (or all) common parts and, if appropriate, certain flats in close proximity to the flat of fire origin (or, in small schemes, all other flats). For example, this might be appropriate in the case of a sheltered housing block that does not incorporate all measures normally provided in purpose-built blocks of flats as the basis for a "stay put" policy. Where the communal system is also used to alert residents to a fire in their own flat, or in an another flat in close proximity, consideration needs to be taken of the necessary sound levels within the flats.

As been said before AB it not as simple as that, but I must take Kurnal's advice and check out Colin guide.

[colin todd]

Tam, why do you say BS 5839-6 does not apply to the common parts???  It certainly does.  I made it do so with my own fair hand.

Dont listen to Kurnal by the way.  Buy the book online, Tam, or ask Santa to bring it for your Christmas.  It will be your most treasured present that can only be topped by a personally signed copy.

[Tom Sutton]

CT based on the sentences I have highlighted above but I do accept there are statements, in the Forward for example, that says part 6 applies to the living units and the common areas.

Christmas present seems a good solution  

[colin todd]

I dont wish to be pedantic Tam, but the point is that the whole of a sheltered housing scheme comes within the scope of Part 6.  It is simply the case that it then shorthands the common parts detection (if any) by referring to Part 1.  But the lead and strategy lives within Part 6 not Part 1.