Novel escape stairs

[SeaBass]

Does anyone have any experience with counterbalanced escape stairs in the UK? (The American type of external escape stair with a  retractable lower flight) We came across one recently. There are no user instructions, no approvals for its use, in fact very little other than the stair, which descends into, and obstructs an ally that forms a MoE for two other buildings. (But that?s a different issue)  I?ve never come across this type of kit  in the UK before, and was wondering if anyone else had.

We will be challenging this arrangement as not being suitable,  but I wondered if there were any examples of this type of kit having been accepted by building control of F&RS  in the long distant past, or maybe even recently. (Stranger things are happening in UKs FS arrangements at the moment)

[wee brian]

Something we've always frowned upon. ADB has a line about "manipulative devices"

[kurnal]

They were commonly used as fire escapes on flats in the 1930s in response to the Public Health Act 1936 which required improved fire precautions to be provided where there was a floor level of more than 20 ft above ground. I know - and have photos of several, now very corroded. I also know of one still in good condition on a former cotton mill in Oldham, again I have photos - this one is still in use but is permanently used in the lowered position following my FRA and a security fence and gate with panic device has been erected around the base rather than raising it. Though in a shared yard you may not have such an option.

[Fishy]

Clause 14.3 of BS 9999 lists these under "Generally unacceptable" means of escape:

"...manipulative apparatus and appliances, e.g. fold-down ladders..."

As Wee Brian says, similar clause in the England and Wales AD-B (Page 15)

[Mr. P]

I know of a premise in Cumbria where BC accepted, nay, insisted upon, a rope ladder to be thrown out of the window! I heard it with my very own ears...

[K Lard]

I can remember a fire escape slide at a children's home back in the eighties. Check out http://www.assured-ltd.co.uk/blog/top-10-unusual-fire-escape-systems/

[kurnal]

Yes you are right Scope (formerly known as mencap) used to run specialist care homes and had fixed flume like slides from the upper floors.

[SeaBass]

I don't have too much of a problem with fixed slides being used as escape routes. In certain circumstances and subject to specific controls of course.  There's no manipulation required and the greatest risk is bumping into someone at the bottom, or possibly friction burns.  I've seen such systems used on rocket launch towers and to effect very rapid egress from upper levels of a facility that was working with hydrazine. The main point being that these slides required little or no training in their use  (Most people can use gravity without too much trouble)  and the systems were only available to people who were familiar with the arrangement.     

As a matter of interest, when does pushing a bar or a pad, or depressing a lever become manipulation. If a counter balanced stair can be deployed by a single action such as pulling or pushing a lever, would that be acceptable?    I know that there are other factors that would need to be taken into account, but in principle, could there be any legitimate objections?

[kurnal]

According to ADB (door fastenings) pushing a panic bar is a single manipulation. It suggests that exit doors should be fastened such that they can be opened with a single manipulation of a single device.

I think your problem is more with the historic  concept and definition of means of escape and that it should be available for immediate use at all times. (Structural means forming an integral part of the building etc).

But this is an existing building so ADB and BS9999 are only relevant as a source of best practice guidance, the FRA will determine the appropriate and reasonably practicable risk control measures? After all many buildings have security issues requiring exit doors to be fitted with security devices which on the face of it goes against the guidance in ADB et al.   

[JT]

I can remember a fire escape slide at a children's home back in the eighties. Check out http://www.assured-ltd.co.uk/blog/top-10-unusual-fire-escape-systems/

Brilliant!
Out of interest - were there any injuries reported from people using these types?
Thinking of aircraft evac shutes, there's never a concern of clogging up at the bottom as people naturally want to get away. Would that be a concern for these?

[AnthonyB]

Some counterbalance stairs require no manipulation as the first person on the stair will cause it to gradually descend automatically. There are US codes relating to them and they are still accepted over there.

As long as they are in good condition and subject to suitable PPM there is no real reason not to accept them and in the buildings I have encountered them there is no realistic alternative, they are well looked after and in fire drills have operated fine.

Some info from across the pond with issues that can arise:

http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2009/08/fire-escapes-counterbalanced-stairways.html

As for other novel escapes, Birmingham Town Hall (the old one that is now an entertainment venue) uses escape chutes for the top gallery where the spotlight operators are based.

[John Webb]

When I was looking at indoor adventure playgrounds around 1995-7, the fire escape arrangements from the upper levels often involved the use of the slides and chutes which formed part of the equipment. But in other buildings I never came across the USA type of descending staircase.

[Phoenix]

I have come across a few of these counterbalanced ladders in older buildings over the years.  If they are structurally sound, if they are only for a few staff, if all the relevant staff have received training, have practised using them and are confident that they know how to use them in an emergency, if they are safe to use, if they have suitable lighting, if their use does not create a hazard and if they are maintained in good working order then they could be acceptable.

The onus is on the occupier to demonstrate that the above list is satisfied.  Standards have changed over recent years and what used to be considered 'safe to use' might no longer be viewed in the same way.

As for obstructing other buildings' means of escape, of course it might not be an issue if those buildings are never likely to evacuate at the same time but, then again, it might be an issue.

I saw one ladder that went up from a basement and involved opening a large man hole type cover from below (ok if a motorbike wasn't parked on it).  It was ok for getting out but when you saw it in its working position you noticed that a large unprotected hole in the pavement resulted from its deployment.  If they want to use one of these then they should give you a demonstration of the staff using it (stress that liability rests with them).

I've seen Davy escapes where the rope hasn't been unreeled for a century, canvas chutes that were so moth eaten you'd fall straight through them and I went one place that had an escape onto a flat roof with a small, 30cm high parapet round the edge.  And to get off the flat roof (and this was  for members of the public, mind) there was a roof ladder lying on the roof.  I dangled it from the parapet and it didn't even reach the ground!  I was in a good mood that day so I said it was fine.