Loft conversions

[col10]

In a typical two storey house with a loft conversion to turn it into a three storey house , not open plan, what do people think about retaining the existing, non fire rated, doors and  fitting more detection to compensate for the doors not being fire rated?

[wee brian]

ADB was only ever looking for FD20s. Which is another way of saying "reasonably robust, with no big holes etc".

This guidance note sets out what most BCBs will accept.
http://www.buildingcontrolalliance.org/download/4-bca-loft-conv-tech-note-4-rev-1-pdf/

[kurnal]

Thanks for posting this wee b.
The advice on doors appears misleading.

"Existing  panel doors in excess of 32mm thickness
The door should be attached to the door frame with steel hinges, not be visibly warped, fit well into its frame (4mm gap at head and sides maximum) and there should be no visible defects particularly in the panels. There should be no sig- nificant defects to adjacent walls or around door frames forming the stair enclosure."

Invariably such doors will have plywood panels of 6mm or 10mm. Am I misinterpreting the document in assuming such doors are acceptable?

[col10]

So if the existing doors are not FD20, what do people think about retaining the existing  doors and providing more detection to compensate for the retained doors not being FD20 doors.

[Fishy]

If it's anything like my house, the doors are unlikely to be closed in any case (note - no requirement for self-closers) and in these circumstances their fire resistance will be pretty irrelevant.  Enhanced detection may give you a few more seconds to make good your escape.  If the works are extensive, consider residential sprinklers?

[Dinnertime Dave]

If it's anything like my house, the doors are unlikely to be closed in any case (note - no requirement for self-closers) and in these circumstances their fire resistance will be pretty irrelevant.  Enhanced detection may give you a few more seconds to make good your escape.  If the works are extensive, consider residential sprinklers?

No requirement for self closers ! - Try telling that to my local authority housing officer who threatened to enforce them in a two years old block of flats. Oh and move hard wired detection 400mm for earlier detection. Claimed that under the Housing Act he can use risk assessment (his) to enforce both of these items.

[Revol]

I understand that the BCA have a guidance note which proposes that existing doors are acceptable (when certain criteria is met) however the fire door industry seem to conflict this by stating that intumescent strips must be installed. It is very difficult for a BCB to 'accept' an existing door as providing the relevant amount of structural fire protection when they have no evidence to this effect. I understand the door closers are no longer stipulated in the guidance but in my view that does not give justification for watering down the structural fire protection we do provide to occupants.

[colin todd]

Thickish bit of timber in the hole, fit AFD in the rooms, job done. Forget intumescent strips. And dont even dream about sprinklers.

[wee brian]

Well said. Can I use that in my new book?

[colin todd]

Yes, but you must attribute the source and not write it during the hours I am paying you.