Control of numbers

[lyledunn]

I have a fifth floor function room which could probably hold 600 based on standard floor space factors.  However I only have MOE provision for 280. The room will be used primarily for wedding receptions and management are quite content with limiting numbers at 170 as they feel that is about the limit that they could cater for on an operational basis in terms of reception dining. However, as we all know, additional guests often arrive for the evening party. Management say that they will restrict numbers using various recognised methods. Building Control, however, are not shifting from their stance that adequate MOE provision based on floor space factors will be required. Can I ask your opinion? I should say that all standard fire safety requirements have been met.

[Messy]

Are you saying that Building Control want additional MOE capacity to match the floor space factor, rather than restricting numbers?

How would that be achieved - perhaps an external staircase? Good luck with that on a heritage building!

Have I missed something here as restricting numbers to match the MOE capacity should surely be the aim? 

[Fishy]

Presumably, if BC are involved there must be building work going on, or a change in use?  Would be useful to know what the scope of works is, as that can influence what's reasonable, as regards compliance with the guidance?

In defence of BC - they may wish to consider what the building might be used for, as well as what it is used for; similarly if the safety of the premises is based particularly heavily on management - can that be relied upon, & even if it can now, what if that changes in the future?  After all, once BC approval is gained, any activity that fell under the purpose group 'assembly and recreation' could be undertaken in the premises - so what if a wedding venue becomes a music venue?  What if the management changes? One of the main reasons that we design using floor space factors is to allow a reasonable degree of flexibility, the potential unreliability of management measures and to cater for change (whether foreseen or unforeseen).

Having said all the above, I'm not sure that they can absolutely insist on 100% compliance with the guidance.  You could always go for a determination?

[lyledunn]

Nail on the head, Fishy. BC have categorically stated that they will not accept the current situation even with the policing aspect of an entertainment licence. I am reluctant to lead a charge against the determination as I would tend to agree that adequate exit capacity based on floor space should be applied in such places. I have seen too many venues where control of numbers has been flouted.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Restricting number is quite acceptable. Although, a room that holds 600 down to less that 200 does leave a lot of empty space.

I assume this is in Ireland.

[lyledunn]

That is the problem with a mult-purpose function room,DD, one minute a wedding reception with space gobbled up by tables with a floor space factor of 2 and then the next minute a possible dance venue with a factor of 0.5.

[lyledunn]

Final decision by BC; room must have MOE capacity based a floor factor of 2 persons per M2 which reflects possible use as a bar or similar. Even though the project is based on 9999 in which section 16.2 allows a method of assessing occupant capacity on the available width of the MOE, BC are not prepared to acknowledge. Looks like arbitration will be required as their ruling effectively kills the viability of the venue.