fbu bnp

[dave bev]

the usefulness of any advice can be judged as very useful by the giver and perhaps not so useful by the reciever, especially when the operating system of the vehicle might be totally different than the older model.

and of course a former owner who really thought so much of the vehicle would never dream of publicly and privately disowning the vehicle, sure they may have constantly droned on about how well it performed in their day, as opposed to in their opinion, the poor performing current model, but they would never have disowned the vehicle.

a bit like me and the ife really. i have and will always support the ife, i might have issues with bits of it, but i believe that those who steer its course do so with the best intentions and i wouldnt ever dream of publicly disowning it.

dave bev

[kurnal]

I used to love  driving Italian cars but boy did they rust!  They dont rust  now but have lost so much of their character due to euro cloning. On balance I preferred the rusty ones.

Dave from your last posting I take it that you would consider it inappropriate to use a public forum to make any comment that might be read as criticism  of an organisation you support- therefore the  only acceptable forum for such debate from within, is behind closed doors.
On the other hand other organisations- National and International Goverments or political parties,  employers organisations are fair targets for  discussion, criticism and even campaigns.

But  loyal  members or ex members should keep keep quiet and only raise concerns privately in closed meetings?

Had this been the case  the labour Party (ie New Labour) would not now be starting to decline through infighting, and anyway probably Mrs Thatcher would still be in power. Possibly the deputy PM would not have been forced to resign. The political lines would be very clearly defined and polarised. And very different to reality.
I dont see my standpoint as beng disloyal. More like the boy in the emperors suit of clothes story.

Open debate is usually helpful. If debate is stifled it inevitably leads to a reaction and more serious consequences down line. But I do accept that forums have their difficulties if there is an imbalance of posters with different views.    
But like you say- we all have a choice of whether to respond or not..
Thats my last word on this Dave B. Promise.
Now how about that beer?