Beds, beds, beds!

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Spot on Pugh! These days anyone attempting to stand up for themselves is branded a whinger, moaner and a dinosaur.

Firefighters who value the 'old' principles of Teamwork, good morale, enthusiasm, dedication to duty, discapline and a real love for the job are now dinosaurs who resist change & modernisation!

[pugh]

I'm all for modernisation, bringing in new practices, new equipment, broadening the recruitment spectrum to encourage under-represented groups to join, but things have gone too far.  Modernisation has just been used as an excuse for all FS mis-managers to get out their grievance list and start ticking things off and isolating those they deem to be troublesome.

I'm all for greater community involvement.  When I joined, the fire station was not a place that local people felt they had any say in.  That's changing, and about time.

I'm all for bringing in new practices that make the job safer for all concerned, and providing effective training.  Again, when I joined, the retained LF/f and Sub O only held their rank due to 'time served' and hadn't been given any formal training in incident command, dynamic risk assessment, etc.  That was reserved for the wholetime officers and even they had to wait their turn.  That has also changed and now it is acknowledged that the retained F/f's face exactly the same risk as wholetime personnel, perhaps moreso due to the often isolated location of retained units.

But to be put 'at risk' by changes to the duty system that mean you don't get sufficient rest?  To have changes made  to conditions because they are no longer 'PC', at additional cost to the tax-payer?  To have pension rights stripped because central and local government totally mismanaged the issue for over 40 years and now the firefighters have to pick up the tab?   When are you going to WAKE UP?

[nearlythere]

Anyone who thinks that you actually sleep when on nights is way off track. You do not sleep because you are always anticipating the bells going down.
I was always knackered after the 2 nights, even when they were quiet.

[Pip]

Anyone who thinks that you actually sleep when on nights is way off track. You do not sleep because you are always anticipating the bells going down.
I was always knackered after the 2 nights, even when they were quiet.

yep,never got a decent nights kip because of that.If people have to stay awake on both night shifts all the time,I cannot see how the 2-2-3 system could survive.

[eric's collar]

precisely why in gmc the chief is creating all these 'rest problems'. he has allegedly stated that the last part of the modernisation agenda is 12 hour shifts, end of. no need for rest facilities then, you can stand on a production line screwing lids on bottles for 12 hours, 15 min breaks, 1 hour breaks, then back on your heads. that is precisely the reason why they are making the rest facility issue such a problem. you can imagine the rhetoric ' we gave you the start and finish times you wanted 6-9 9-6., the same shift you wanted 2-2-4, we gave you adequate rest facilities, fully assessed by ergonomists and you still cannot make it work, you persistently show you cannot make it work, therefore we have no other option but to put you on 12 hour shifts' BANG - there you go, all the chess pieces finally fall into place as expected and the knighthood is in the post! the first brigade in the country to force everything through and the template for every other brigade to follow suit. resist the change brothers because the future is here in gmc and every man and woman on the ops side from ff to wc is miserable. industrial action is looming, be very sure of that...

[pugh]

Very sad to see how the intransigence of mis-managers and their not-so-hidden agenda, allied to the apparent impotence of the FBU is destroying the very fabric of the service that, in times past, was the envy of the world for its professionalism, dedication and esprit de corps.  Now, it sounds like it's just another job.  Unfortunately, when people realise just how far these changes are going, how they will impact upon them personally, it will be far too late to retrieve the situation and far too costly to reverse.

Resistance has to be here and it has to be NOW.

Time was, when any individual in any brigade across the country was threatened with redundancy, there would be an immediate recall conference with a mandate for strike action.  The spirit of the FBU was strong and all members derived a degree of comfort and security knowing this.  The employers knew full well that once this wheel started turning it would turn full circle and they would be the losers.  That option is now long gone, what with all the individual, local agreements and different shift patterns that have been developed.  Like I said in a previous post - Divide and Conquer!

Any proposed changes to conditions that were not acceptable in my brigade were made the subject of a formal dispute and the status quo prevailed until such time as an agreement was reached  This necessarily had to involve the whole of the FBU membership within the brigade in order to ratify any agreements.  If that failed, the dispute continued and went to arbitration.  It was an open and honest process that was undertaken without rancour.  Can that be said about present day shenanigans?

A good part of this present day malaise can be attributed to the recruitment of out-of-service managers with no previous fire service experience who treat 'the job' as exactly that, just another job, or even a MacJob.  To be a firefighter requires something pretty special, and they don't understand that, or allow for it, or, in some circumstances take advantage of it, and that is the crux of the matter.  How can you have an open and effective dialogue with someone who has no concept of what you do, are expected to do or a willing to do on a daily basis.

Stand up, be counted and get some bite back in the union.

[Big T]

When I left the fire brigade I started a new job where i worked 4 days, 4 off, 4nights, 4 off etc on a 12 hour shift 7am-7pm / 7pm-7am shift for 2 and a half years. I was working as a fire safety consultant for a multinational firm who had a requirement for 24 hour business continuity system with regard to degraded fire system planning.

Having been a firefighter working a 2-2-3 for 4 years it was a serious shock to the system not being able to sleep my nights.

I was 22 when I started the new shift. 3 years later I found I was overweight, constantly tired and sick a lot.

Funnily enough I quit and am happy working 36 hours a week.

Not sleeping during nights ruins your health and any physical training regime you have will fall to bits due to fatigue. I'm not in the brigade any more, i'm not working shifts anymore and I assure you all i will never do shift work again.

Ignore us public folk whingeing on about "Oh you all work at B and Q on your days off" You know thats not true.

I'd rather have you pitch up at my gaff at 3am well rested and fit as a butchers dog, than being overweight, tired and not up for it.

Fight it for gods sake gents.

[Pip]

precisely why in gmc the chief is creating all these 'rest problems'. he has allegedly stated that the last part of the modernisation agenda is 12 hour shifts, end of. no need for rest facilities then, you can stand on a production line screwing lids on bottles for 12 hours, 15 min breaks, 1 hour breaks, then back on your heads. that is precisely the reason why they are making the rest facility issue such a problem. you can imagine the rhetoric ' we gave you the start and finish times you wanted 6-9 9-6., the same shift you wanted 2-2-4, we gave you adequate rest facilities, fully assessed by ergonomists and you still cannot make it work, you persistently show you cannot make it work, therefore we have no other option but to put you on 12 hour shifts' BANG - there you go, all the chess pieces finally fall into place as expected and the knighthood is in the post! the first brigade in the country to force everything through and the template for every other brigade to follow suit. resist the change brothers because the future is here in gmc and every man and woman on the ops side from ff to wc is miserable. industrial action is looming, be very sure of that...

whether it is 12 or 9/15 shifts,you cannot switch between two days and then two waking night with only 24 hours in between,and then repeat it again 3 days later.the body clock won't stand it for long.The only reason that the shift has lasted so long is because FF are not up working every night (although I am sure there are some stations that are up a lot all the time.It suited the employer before to have the 'rest' break because it meant they did not have to pay a premium for a true 'night' shift

[G]

The trial of these silly 'chairs' is due to commence in Wallington (London) very shortly. Needless to say they will be resisted at every stage. Interestingly the LFEPA is allowing the standard (paid for years ago) Beds to stay alongside the new silly chairs.

If everyone reported back pain and went sick at some stage the silly chairs (and they're silly costs) could be consinged to history where they belong.

This is on the whim of one overweight right wing member of the authority (wanabe MP) who is currently banned from driving, any guesses?

[Chris Houston]

.....If everyone reported back pain and went sick at some stage the....

[G]

.....If everyone reported back pain and went sick at some stage the....

Have you tried the new silly chair yet?

Elsmere Port has, and back pain was the result.

 or fact?

[Kaiser]

The thing that most amazes me about these recliners is that they are way way more expensive than a half decent bed.  A couple of hours proper rest in  or on a bed is better for the body, cheaper for the brigade and far better for morale.  One other point is that the people who constantly want to get rid of the beds are the people who won't be affected by the decision and enjoyed beds when they were in our position.

[BB]

Fair point Kaiser, these are the same personnel who whilst on flexi cover duty are tucked up in their nice warm comfortable beds at home.

Why can't they stop on station with the ops crew whilst on duty.

No wonder most are them are portly having their cake and eating it!!

.................Dispense of the mattress monitors??

[Pip]

Fair point Kaiser, these are the same personnel who whilst on flexi cover duty are tucked up in their nice warm comfortable beds at home.

Why can't they stop on station with the ops crew whilst on duty.

No wonder most are them are portly having their cake and eating it!!

.................Dispense of the mattress monitors??

Because they spend more nights on call (twice as many as a watch), and then have to go to work the next day.Don't want to be disturbed by the pumps going out to minor incidents!
agree-get rid of the matress monitors!

[BB]

Recently heard through the grape vine that the chief of one of the big Met. brigades following a visit on station noticed that the soical club had purchased comfy sofas for personnel to sit in whilst on their breaks.
The chief has ordered the removal of these comfy sofas as he thinks that the crews will possibly close their eyes and fall asleep whilst sitting in them.

Hasn't he got anything better to do than goose step around fire stations with his yard stick. These CFO's and their puppets or is it muppets need to get real and deal with the important issues within their brigades.

Hey so much for bridge building!!!!