Suitability of Fire Risk Assessment

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Has anyone looked at this fire risk assessment?

www.fpa-fireriskassessment.com

If so, would you accept it as suitable and sufficient under the workplace fire precautions legislation?

This could be of interest to you PhilB!!

[kurnal]

This "risk assessment" is nothing more than a checklist audit of existing arrangements- theres no element of risk evaluation in it as far as I can see. It doesn't meet the tests of the management regs - " suitable and sufficient".
But in its defence remember who it is  aimed at- the SMEs. ( Small / medium employers) . Its going to be  much better than what 60% of them have at the moment ( nothing if govt statistics are to be believed). Its supported by the FSB so this may help educate people who would be frightened of requesting advice from the brigade and not want to pay a consultant.  And the guidance is so tedious that they may well fall asleep before getting halfway through and so decide to call me in anyway! Every silver lining has a cloud.

[shaunmckeever]

If it is intended to be completed by someone without any real knowledge of fire safety then I think the answer is no. Take question 20 for example, 'Are the devices securing final exits capable of being opened immediately and easily without the use of a key?'. Someone without any knowledge of fire safety might look at this question and say that the sliding bolts at the top and bottom of a door and the thumb turn in the middle can all be opened immediately and without the use of a key, but you and I know that is not acceptable. The explanatory notes do not help. I have come across several of these and the example above was one that I found as part of a tenants FRA. I don't think the FPA are doing themselves any favours here.

Baldyman, what would you consider is necessary for an FRA to be considered 'suitable and sufficient'?

[PhilB]

It may be deemed suitable by some, I have seen many better examples. To be fair it is useful as a checklist and fine as long as the person using it knows the limit of their competence. It covers most but not all of the areas required by RRFSO.

I would question if printing off the resulting form constitutes all the significant findings that should be recorded. In my opinion  this should include conclusions and reasoning as to the suitability of the building with regard time Vs tenability for the occupants.

Ignition sources, fuels and structural hazards should identify the type of fire likely to be encountered. The building should then be assessed to determine the adequacy of existing control measutres. i.e. can occupants escape safely before conditions become untenable. I dont think the checklist does this.

Having said that I was shown a risk assessment carried out on behalf of a well known establishment very very near to me that was quite frankly pathetic.

It was a very small document listing ignition sources, sources of fuel and comments like travel distances are deemed suitable!!!!!

We will have to wait until some of these inferior assessments are challenged by enforcing authorities in Court.

Interesting times ahead!

[Tom Sutton]

I agree with PhilB its only a checklist and depending on the ability of the person using it will determine whether the FRA is good, poor or pathetic.

[messy]

As regards whether this FRA method results in sufficient FRAs, it surely depends on the combination of the nature of the risk and the competence of who has completed the form.

For instance: If I was handed this by the owner of a small corner grocery shop/Post Office employing 5 part-time workers with minimal risk, I'd be happy(ish)

But I couldn't say the same if the business were a light engineering workshop in a multi-occ building, employing the same number, with flammable liquids, gas cylinders, hot working etc etc

In my (humble) opinion, the quality of the FRA must be proportionate to the risks presented. The danger of this electronic format FRA is that the employer might well sit at his/her PC and knock it out in 10 minutes (as if it were a lifestyle quiz from a  magazine) without the type of quality evaluation of the risks which may be required

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

I wouldn't accept it at all.

There is no way of establishing how the answers have been arrived at, the thought process used to arrive at a conclusion.

It certainly doesn't seem to be appropriate for the people it is aimed at, small/medium businesses. The employers guide gives better information.

In answer to the question aimed at me, some of what  I would expect to see is :-  a record of the protective and preventative measures, the deficiencies identified by the risk assessment, a management plan to address the deficiencies aswell as an assessment of the means of escape using time/tenability.

[jokar]

I am bemused by the responses here.  It is quite obviously a risk assessment.  What you as individuals think of it is beside the point.  If an employer, or for the future a Responsible Person uses this format, then so be it.  All a risk assessment is, is a journey from A to B.  The important bits are whether the employer/Responsible person understands it, how they got to the decisions they made and what guidance they looked at to assess their respective premises.  You can guage that by questioning the individual and the staff and having a wander around.  A risk assessment is the means to an end, it is not the end.  The structure becomes immaterial, providing all parties have undertaken the process with knowledge and/or guidance and in the end have an action plan to deal with any deficiencies they have noted.  FSO's will not have the time to undertake a detailed look at either a Risk Assessment or the premises and it is unlikely that an employer/Responsible Person will ahve the time either.  After all, they have a business to run, part of which is the risk assessment for fire.

[hughskid]

I don't think the FPA are doing themselves any favours here.

I couldn't agree more, I find this totally irresponsible of them to call this as a FRA.

[shaunmckeever]

I am bemused by the responses here.  It is quite obviously a risk assessment.

Jokar, it is not obviously a risk assessment. It is a series of questions. It is not a risk assessment until answers have been entered against the questions. Depending on what answers have been given and the thought processes behind it will determine if it constitutes a suitable and sufficient risk assessment. The questions are aimed at SME's, intended in my view to be answered by persons without any knowledge of fire safety. The accompanying notes are there to assist the person completing the assessment. If the accompanying notes are sufficient then why are we waiting so long for the guidance notes to accompany the RRO to be produced?

[wee brian]

The whole idea of these things is to put the wind up SMEs who will not be able to answer the questions and ,therefore, will need to employ a consultant.

clever

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Or they could seek advice from the Fire Authority!!

[shaunmckeever]

Is that seek advice from the Fire Authority who tells them it is ok to leave a disabled person in a temporary refuge and wait for the fire service to rescue them or the fire authority who accepts an escape route through a commercial kitchen or would that be the fire authority who sanctions the removal of MCP's from Halls of Residence?

Sorry, just a few examples I have come across recently.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

No, its the Fire Authority with officers that will give them good advice.

[wee brian]

And charge them for it ? or suggest they call back when they are off duty for some consultancy