DDA Regs - Fire Beacons

[Thebeardedyorkshireman]

Hi Graeme
Yes I know the product but does it FULLY comply, despite what the blurb says?
Dave

[David Rooney]

http://www.deaf-alerter.com/website.htm

Things may have changed with deaf alerter but a couple of years ago when we looked into them they didn't comply fully (as claimed) with BS.

I can't find the old paperwork but I think it was to do with the fact they didn't indicate a failure of the transmission equipment on the pager.

"18.2.2 f) A failure of the interconnection (e.g. radio transmission) between the control and indicating equipment
and the portable alarm device should be identified at the portable alarm device by a visual and tactile
signal within five minutes of the failure."

As I recall, their original plan for world domination was to sell pagers to deaf people and transmitters to all the shops in the highstreet, therefore "one personal pager" fits all. For all sorts of reasonably obvious reasons this couldn't work.

When I spoke to their marketing people they implied the monitoring part should be considered as a "variation" although it wasn't written down anywhere.

As I said, don't know if they ever changed...... (all allegedly of course....)

The only one I found to comply was the Scope system (and a lot cheaper !)

[Graeme]

i am going on their say so as a yes Dave but Mr Rooney has made me want to ask again.

I will let you know.


G


Mr Rooney-have you used  scope before for this application?

[Graeme]

I suspect you may be correct Mr R

from their site it says that the transmitter unit is battery backed up to meet the capacity requirements of 5839 but nothing else mentioned.

Scope meet all the rquirements of 5839 as a  means of alerting deaf people but maybe not the DDA as what about the short time in say a hotel when a deaf person may take out his hearing aids for a shower.You would then need visual alarms also.

you could take this way too far i suppose.What about when a deaf person is in the shower.
He/she could not take the Deaf Alerter cradle with beacon  in as it's plugged in, or the pager unless he clips it somewhere sore.

[David Rooney]

I suspect you may be correct Mr R

Scope meet all the rquirements of 5839 as a  means of alerting deaf people but maybe not the DDA as what about the short time in say a hotel when a deaf person may take out his hearing aids for a shower.You would then need visual alarms also.

you could take this way too far i suppose.What about when a deaf person is in the shower.
He/she could not take the Deaf Alerter cradle with beacon  in as it's plugged in, or the pager unless he clips it somewhere sore.

Talking to Scope their unit seemed to me to be the better option.

I think the shower room scenario is taking it a bit too far, although you could have vibrating ear muffs under your shower cap...?!

Have you played with that "EMS/DoorGuard" collaboration, the alarm unit that sits on the bedside cabinet, listening out for the fire alarm (like the doorguard) and operates a vibrating under pillow pad.

I'm not sure what this does or does not comply with as it's not "radio" controlled, it doesn't seem to come under 5839...?

[Graeme]

never seen it David but never been a fan of devices that listen for the alarm.

What about connecting a pulsing relay to the shower pump so the water stop/starts when the fire alarm goes off?

i could make millions.(not)

[David Rooney]

never seen it David but never been a fan of devices that listen for the alarm.

What about connecting a pulsing relay to the shower pump so the water stop/starts when the fire alarm goes off?

i could make millions.(not)

Far better to shutdown the hot tap.... that'll encourage 'em to get out!

[Thebeardedyorkshireman]

Graeme/Dave
Just to pick up the thread again, what about scope, does it comply on the battery side?
That used to be the problem.
Dave
You could argue that they are relatively safe whilst under the water deluge system anyway.

[David Rooney]

Graeme/Dave
Dave
You could argue that they are relatively safe whilst under the water deluge system anyway.

Not where I live, they want us to install a timer to limit showers to 5 minutes !!!

As far as I recall, the scope system complies - must admit I wasn't aware of and don't recall a battery problem....?

[Graeme]

Graeme/Dave
Just to pick up the thread again, what about scope, does it comply on the battery side?
That used to be the problem.
Dave
You could argue that they are relatively safe whilst under the water deluge system anyway.

just spoke to them today and they have a fully compliant system to 5839.
If you install this in a hotel though you will still need visual and tactile alarms in the bedrooms for DDA.
The pagers alone are fine for a workplace.

[Graeme]

here's a link Dave

http://www.scope-uk.com/pdfs/pagetek_pro.pdf

[Graeme]

Point to note.

There are no specific technical requirements in the DDA. It is not possible to specify a system that complies with Act.

As has been said, all you can do is what is reasonable. One way to demonstarte this is to use a recognised book of words. BS 5839 Part 1 says something along the lines of put them in places where people may work alone etc.

It's a bit open to interpretation but its better than nowt.

B

5839 like you say Brian mentions that bulidings with a large propotion of deaf people working that tend to move around or work in isolation then additional means of warning may be needed.

or if the deaf poeple in that building spend most of the time in one place then install visuals in that place along with the associated toilets.

but again how can you be certian that they are going to spend all their time in one area?

easiest way is to give them a pager rather than install visuals where they might or might not go,than there can be no  arguments.

[wee brian]

I think the code is saying - do what is reasonable, don't go OTT.

You cant cater for every eventuallity.

pagers have their limitations, for instance, in public buildings where there is no control over people coming and going. (I wonder how many get stolen?)

[Allen Higginson]

I think the code is saying - do what is reasonable, don't go OTT.

You cant cater for every eventuallity.

pagers have their limitations, for instance, in public buildings where there is no control over people coming and going. (I wonder how many get stolen?)

I wish that the consultant who designed the system sitting in front of me nolw had read this post - flamin' sounder/beacon bases everywhere (ceiling height is 6 metres in some places!).

[Graeme]

It will be like an illegal rave when the fire alarm goes off Buzz.

Fire in the disco!!!