Fire Rating High Risk Bathrooms

[Graeme]

All WC's need a FD30S if they are contained within a protected stair (plus a couple of extra ifs and buts) and don't forget that would walls would also have to be of 30 minute fire resistant construction, If it is a bathroom containing the kind of equipment you describe I would question whether it could be placed in a protected stair at all.

There wouldn't be a lot of point in fire resisting a room with no detection in it. you'd have no idea the building was on fire until products of combustion set off your SD in the corridoor.

Maybe install a rate of rise detector in the room and have on an overly high setting. Have a fire alarm panel perhaps that desensitises the detection during the day when it is likely to be used and makes itself more sensitive at night.

Install a timer delay on the detection that the operator could press before they start using the room and an hour later perhaps the detection switches itself back on.

That said I would imagine the equipment would only be on when it is being used and if it's being used you have a human link to raise the alarm. When the equipment isn't being used just have an isolation switch outside. Remove the electricity and remove the risk?

If you install a RoR detector then you would not need all your other suggestions ,depending also if it's a/addressable. A bathroom enviroment is not likely to trigger a RoR under normal conditions.

Shopping centres wc's etc i would consider a risk from arson.Schools in my area have also had problems with pupils setting the waste paper towel bins on fire.

[AnthonyB]

As stated bathrooms are not safe as they seem nor toilets - I know of one building that had a fire start in an electrical handdryer - as a toilet, despite leading onto the protected escape stair it had a normal door. This coupled with the alarm system being P2/M and havng no life detection just a few heads in key areas of the floorspace (records, server) meant that the only time anyone knew anything was when the protected stair was filling with smoke & untenable to the occupants.

No enforcement action resulted as the building was still virtually identical to it's fire certificate plans & schedules so no breach occured (pre 1999 fire)

[John Webb]

Peter Wilkinson makes a good point. What about a domestic sprinkler head to both detect and control such a fire?

[Firewolf]

I can't help chuckling to myself a little bit - I knew this would spark off a bit of debate. But I am glad it has because it is one of those "grey areas" that does cause confusion.

Some of you think Im absolute crackers for calling bathrooms high risk! And I can undertsand your argument!

Others take the view that risk rooms should be adequately protected or risk assessed and I can also see that argument!

Can I throw something else into the mix..?

Instead of asking for a fire rated door to be fitted to a bathroom of perceived high risk would it be unreasonable to ask for a positive self closing dervice to be fitted to on the door? - In other words a measure which will ensure the door is kept closed should fire occur -and  as there wouldn't be any smoke seals a small ammount  smoke would enter the corridor and hopefully set off the AFD there.

Thanks again for all your help

[wee brian]

FW you arent crackers at all. There are plenty of fires that start in bathrooms.

They dont tend to be very big because theres not much to burn - usually.....

I am a bit woriied about all this stuff about letting smoke into the corridor to get to a detector. I really dont think this is necessary. If you get a fire big enough to worry about then the smoke will get to the detector in plenty of time.

If you want to detect fire to help the occupants of the bathroom then you will need a detector in the room(assuming the steam doesnt knacker the alarm) .

[Midland Retty]

Sorry for late post on this but I wa searching the forums for discussions on motorised baths and the like.

Motorised baths do pose a significant risk and should be considered in the fire risk assessment.

I would suggest at the very least AFD (in the form of carbon monoxide detector or RoR heat detector as a minimum.)

This is a very important issue - and on which isn't always given the correct attention.

I always insist of AFD in bathrooms with electrical hoists / motorised baths because a represents a risk.

The risk of a fire occuring is low, but if it does occur the potential for harm is very very high - plastic baths give off nasty products of combustion as anyone who has attended fires in bathrooms will know !

So not a silly question in the slightest Firewolf, and as someone else mentioned I am a little bit worried so many people belittled you for asking the question it would only take on bath to go up and the MOE could be severely affected if not dealt with correctly.

[The Colonel]

Wee Brian

Bathrooms do burn well, I know of at least two that were gutted after acrylic baths were involved as the result of unattended candles. Came as a surprise to me when an operational collegue described how intense the fires were, worth looking at the type of bath during any risk assessment and pointing out any problems that may occur. Certainly no candles etc in care/nursing homes.

[BB]

I know i'm veering slightly off the subject and into the realms of HMO's but a fair porportion of shared bathrooms in let's say our lesser standard HMO's have been known to have tumble driers and electrical heaters connected to mutli-plug adapters sitting in bathrooms with no suitable fire door if any door fitted at all.

I'm in agreement with PhilB Re;Code huggers. we need to assess each room on it fire load and not just it's reference: i.e. WC.

[jokar]

I agree with posts 22 and 23 .  The new 5 steps insist on assessing the fire hazard which will include the fire loading.  It is about risk in a premises not what a room is called.

[Big T]

Absoulutely. Put a toilet and sink in every room in the building and you wouldn't need any fire doors at all!

[The Colonel]

Joker, smack on its the risk not name we look at

[Midland Retty]

as well as a fire door would you be looking at any form of early warning too?

[AM]

If you look at some premises, particulaly EPH's, there is a general lack of specific storage spaces, and any spare space is used for the storage of linen, diapers etc. Therefore the risks have increased and should be afforded the same level of protection as any other storeroom.

[Midland Retty]

If you look at some premises, particulaly EPH's, there is a general lack of specific storage spaces, and any spare space is used for the storage of linen, diapers etc. Therefore the risks have increased and should be afforded the same level of protection as any other storeroom.

What if it was just electrical hoists and motorised baths for instance?

[kurnal]

A few years ago many female toilets contained sanitary disposal incinerators mounted on the wall. Fortunately they seem to have dissappeared.

I dont automatically go along with the argument that there is no point in enclosing a room or store in Fire resisting materials unless it is coverd by detection. Whilst I see the argument of course, dont lets forget that for donkeys years before smoke detectors became commonplace we were installing fire resisting partitions and doors in all sorts of locations. Was it alll a waste of time and money? No of course not. Detector or not, if a fire occurs I would much rather have to walk past a fire resisting door  and partition than one made of matchboarding.