RRO- Fire service's role

[Ken Taylor]

I wonder if their risk assessments include drawings indicating positions of extinguishers, call-points, etc? Perhaps they could issue them in the form of a certificate?

[TallyHo]

It looks to me like they are trading form a dominant position, which is illegal.

The Chapter II prohibition of the Competition Act 1998 provides that:

'…any conduct on the part of one or more undertakings which amounts to the abuse of a dominant position in a market is prohibited if it may affect trade within the United Kingdom.'

Have a look at the Office of Fair Trading web site:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/Competition/ca982.htm


Info on Chapter II can be found here:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/Competition/ca98+prohibitions.htm


If it was affecting my trading I would certainly be making a complaint, which you can do here:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/Competition/ca98+complaint.htm

[steve walker]

Other opinions on this thread can be found at http://www.fire.org.uk/punbb/upload/viewtopic.php?id=813

[novascot]

Surely what Essex is doing is sharp practice by anyones standards. If it is legally acceptable it is certainly not morally acceptable.

 I can see this going to court and the FRS eating humble pie.

Are the people employed by this "Company" also employed by Essex F&RS?

£200 flat rate? I have done FRA's which have taken two and more days. Is the £200 for what used to be Section 9a premises? If so they have a bloody cheek because those premises would probably be able to have been assessed by the responsible person.

[TallyHo]

Well there is a page dedicated to the company on the Essex FRS website advertising that ‘EFA (Trading) Ltd is the commercial arm of ECFRS.’ With a link to its website.

http://www.essex-fire.gov.uk/pages/index.asp?area=18

This must mean that the tax payer’s money is being used to advertise EFA (Trading) if nothing else.  I don’t see any advertisements for any other fire safety consultancies on the Essex fire web site so surely this is trading from a dominant position.  I also don’t know where it is housed but if it is on government property and using its utilities then once again this must be unfair trading.

I wonder what response a competing company would get if it approached Essex FRS with the intention of advertising on their web site (without paying for it of course).

I think I’ll move my office into the local fire station, I’m sure they won’t mind.

[Peter Wilkinson]

I'll give them a call and let you all know.

[Mike Buckley]

I had a look at the site. They have a confidentiality clause where EFA (Trading) promise not to pass on any information to third parties. Does this mean that if whilst doing their FRA they find a serious contravention that requires action EFA (Trading) cannot tell EFRS about it?

Keep digging lads!

[novascot]

Any private company that works for a flat rate of £200 per assessment will not be in business for long. Does this happen?
That old saying of "Paying peanuts and getting monkeys," spring to mind.

Has this happened?

[Peter Wilkinson]

What about FRS's entering into agreements with private companies who use FRS letterheads to offer risk assessment services for £200. Any thoughts?

It sounds very dodgy to me.  Have you got evidence of this happening?

[terry martin1]

i have heard a lot about these FRA from essex,

as i understand it, they (their company) cannot make these RA's available within their enforcing authority(not sure if this is true but would make sense). instead i know they are sending mail to as many companies as they can within the parts of essex that they do not enforce (ie large parts of london). informing them they must get a RA and to click on their link to get one now for just £200.

if you where a lay person who runs a company in a part of essex they do not enforce and you received a letter from (or refering to) essex brigade, telling you in an official manner you MUST have a RA. you would probably believe they were the enforcing authority, after all your company is in essex is'nt it?

my personnal opinion is these letters are purposefully misleading people into thinking they are the enforcing authority. and using that to get more trade for their 'independant' company.

i'm sure legaly their doing nothing wrong.  But moraly? Definitley!!

[John Webb]

I'll mention this to my trading-standards neighbour who may work for one of the GL boroughs this affects! I'll let you know what happens.

[terry martin1]

i think that is an excellent idea.  Let us know how you get on

[Big A]

i have heard a lot about these FRA from essex,

as i understand it, they (their company) cannot make these RA's available within their enforcing authority(not sure if this is true but would make sense). instead i know they are sending mail to as many companies as they can within the parts of essex that they do not enforce (ie large parts of london). informing them they must get a RA and to click on their link to get one now for just £200.

if you where a lay person who runs a company in a part of essex they do not enforce and you received a letter from (or refering to) essex brigade, telling you in an official manner you MUST have a RA. you would probably believe they were the enforcing authority, after all your company is in essex is'nt it?

my personnal opinion is these letters are purposefully misleading people into thinking they are the enforcing authority. and using that to get more trade for their 'independant' company.

i'm sure legaly their doing nothing wrong.  But moraly? Definitley!!

A long letter from an Essex Divisional Officer excused them from any (legal) wrong-doing. They have spread much further than the parts of East London that used to be in Essex. We get reports from all over London alleging some fairly hard-sell tactics by Essex's trading company or a subcontractor selling risk assessments and training.

[John Webb]

Re my post #27 - have spoken to my trading-standards neighbour. He does not work for a GLBorough that is ex-Essex and so far has had no complaints from anyone. He thinks it's more of a monopolies matter which is not the province of Trading Standards but of the Office of Fair Trading as mentioned in post #17 above by DaveyH. My neighbour expressed considerable surprise, and thought it strange that a County Council would allow their FRS to do this or for the central goverment body responsible for FRSs to allow it either.