Exit Signage

[kurnal]

Heres a further quote from the nebosh textbook. (general reference to safety signs)

"Pictograms and symbols are included in the regulations. Employee training is needed to understand the meaning of these since many are not inherently clear, some are meaningless to anyone who has not had their meaning explained and some can even be interpreted with their opposite meaning"

"the meaning of a sign (other than verbal communication) must not rely on words. However a sign may be supplemented with words to reinforce the message provided the words do not in fact distract from the message or create a danger".
 
Is ther an icon for push bar to open yet? Or any icons being tested? Another important one particularly in view of the number of foreign workers may be fire exit do not obstruct or keep clear of obstructions.

I have just had a number of signs translated by some Polish employees of one of my clients - particularly the Fire Action notices- that was far from straightforward as some of our phrases and expressions have no diirect equivalent. But how far do you go? This warehouse has at least 10 nationalities working at the moment.

I was always hoping to use the fire alarms voice evacuation facility but thats gone by the board as well- a real shame.

[Jim Creak]

I think everyone now is in agreement that the whole thing is in a mess. That is exactly why British and International Standards Committees worked from 1977-2000 to develop the Standards to satisfy the requirement to harmonise the safety signs. Thank you for mentioning the Health and Safety( Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations because it says you can use any old symbol as long as it has the same meaning?? ( I paraphrase). .We know this is so because there are 5 different graphical symbols in the HSE video and you can mix them if you like. This again is why Standards are produced to give clear guidance to comply with law where there may be confusion.

The Standards committee didn't think having this confusing situation was in the best interest of safety. We believed that an escape route communication system was so vital it should be Standardised, a unified method for clear understanding, simple methodical and effective.

NEBOSH should be ashamed of themselves if this is the guidance given. On the new IOSH Fire Safety Guidance by a bunch called RMS the Escape Route sign on the front cover is wrong misleading and probably negligent.

It is not rocket science....as far as the up and down arrow is concerned we took two years to reach good majority to follow known and understood familiar egress convention, not unanimous but good majority but what ever your opinion it has now been Standardised arrow up straignt on from here as best practice. Implementation is up to the fire safety profession,  a measure of competence and best practice.

Which after all is the key objective. Effective communication is key to effective evacuation.

[PhilHallmark]

Agreed. Most in the trade are aware of safety signage meaning and effect or should be (Nobody is perfect).
The frustration lies in knowing that the information coupled with the understanding of that information is passed via respected H&S authorities to the general public to safety training providers to organisation safety officers etc and is incorrect..
Do you suppose that the advisors/ providers do not see the importance of egress information as the safety signs perhaps do not form a large enough criteria within, for example NEBOSH Gen Cert?  
 
The correct information is watered down from top to bottom and misunderstanding is the result.

[AnthonyB]

Is ther an icon for push bar to open yet? Or any icons being tested? Another important one particularly in view of the number of foreign workers may be fire exit do not obstruct or keep clear of obstructions.

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There is an icon for push bars, Signs International (now defunct it seems) had one for years as well as other ocons for specialist fastenings to use instead of the rather unhelpful tick symbol.

Sadly only a few places incorporate it (shows hands puching the bar downwards) - if your extinguisher supplier uses jactone extinguishers or blankets they can get icon push bar signs with a useflul image

[Tom Sutton]

Richard I do not require to go on a workshop I have been actively out of the fire safety business for ten years and for my purposes I only require an overview of the subject which I get from this forum and some research.
However I do take your point about the traffic lights and you must have some interesting conversations over breakfast with your wife mine still thinks a "branch" is a thing on a tree.

[Jim Creak]

There is a standardised graphical symbol from ISO 3864 for both push and pull, yes and tested. yes  requires supplementary text to aid meaning but not the one made up by any old sign company but has International Standard credentials  NOT with hands showing outdated opening mechanism but to represent new EN requirements that just require pressure in opening direction. If Jactones have copied Signs International then they both do not conform to Standards...but do not blame them if thats what you are asking for.

BS5499 Part 6 outlines the requirements for design criteria for graphical symbols for safety application and this process is required for the introduction of any graphical symbol. The Standards committee do not want to play pictionary with peoples lives.

Mandatory instruction notices like Fire exit keep clear... Fire door keep shut are not covered by the Health and Safety( Safety Signs and Signals) Regulation and remain unchanged from the 1990 Standard. The process of designing appropriate graphical symbols is for future technical committee work.

[kurnal]

How do we move forward from here? Raising impetus may be a problem as so many years have passed since the passing of the regs.

The first step must be to ensure that official guidance and advice is clear and correct. HSE, HMSO. People rely on this guidance as definitive.

The next step is to ensure those organisations such as IOSH, CIEH, EEF, ILM, IFE and NEBOSH ensure that their text books and course materials are also correct. People rely on these and other organisations to develop and prove their competence in the H&S field.

Then the problem needs to be raised in profile through industry groups and CPD- perhaps the ABE, BRE, and similar organisations could run seminars (Ian- what do you think?) An article in the trade journals - for example FEJ and similar publications in the building control and Environmental Health fields would always be welcome I am sure.

Finally the Industry training schools - fire service college, universities etc to ensure that the enforcers sharpened up their understanding.  

Is there anything we can do to start the ball rolling?

[Tom Sutton]

I agree with you kurnal but which of the standards British, European, International or even the Signs and Signal Regs take precedence. Even Jim advocates two standards surely the standards organisations have to come to some agreement first or each country has to make thier own decision?

[Jim Creak]

I always quote two Standards BS 5499 ISO 7010 because they are identical, not just British but also International... Europe does not exist in this equation... there is none and never has been a European Standard for safety signs.. The work has been done on a world stage even though it could be said that the EC directive in 1977 was the catalyst that started this work.. The harmonisation within Europe of workplace safety and the key objective of unified safety message was extremely important..

It has the been the European political interference that has caused the problems' The DSEAR Regulations are just about to create another one for the identification of Explosive Atmosphere... Internationally and Domestically we have a tested familiar and known safety sign for Explosion risk...Guess what...the HSE have ignored that and created another one which has 0% yes 0% understanding and has never been shown to a Standards Technical Committee... Its crazy.

[nearlythere]

Unless it has already been covered it is important to plan the use of signage from the point of view of the potential user, i.e. persons unfamiliar with the premises, usually members of the public.
How a designer, installer or Eurocrat views exit signs is totally irrelevant and common sense should prevail.
To plain old me a down arrow above a door or corridor entrance means "this route", the one below the arrow. An up sign means climb this ladder or stairs.

[Jim Creak]

Yet you would have a different convention on the road... If you want to go somewhere the arrows do not point to the road ..they point to the direction of travel. I do understand that there can be another view, however the process of Standardisation is to unify to avoid confusion.. This can bring up difficult choices.ie Sterling or Euro Lbs or Kilo.....sooner or later someone has to make a decision.

Both International and British Standard technical committee decision was the same . Two expert bodies in agreement...Straight on from here is arrow up.  If you keep pointing to the road how do you give prior warning of a change in direction? Every sign would have to be arrow down. This is not a working convention.

[Ken Taylor]

It does seem to support a view that it might have been better to reserve the arrows for actual directional changes and to simply sign doors as being on fire exit routes (ie sign without arrow) when you simply need to go through them and onward - but that's history now and the downward arrows are increasing!

[Jim Creak]

Where does that statistic come from? If  that is the case it is only in the UK and it can only be because the sign is wrong and in the case of the so called Euro symbol negligent and therefore probably unlawful....does not conform to any accepted Standard.... and is being continually accepted by approved inspectorate, fire authority/consultants that really should know better.

[kurnal]

The British fire consortium have recentlly issued guidance on ISO16069 and low location lighting systems. The leaflet is reproduced on the safelincs site.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/page.php?xPage=bfc2.htm

The leaflet seems to infer that LLL is a requirement in all buildings.

"""It is clear that LLL systems are essential and are to be considered as primary signage along with the high level system. These signs, like those in system 1, are designed to mark the evacuation routes, the exit doors and first aid fire fighting equipment......Because it is designed to be used in situations of low visibility where smoke is present and where people will stoop or crawl, the top of LLL signs must be fixed at 40cm from floor level, allowing people to follow the system whilst in these positions. """"



Is this the correct interpretation?  In all buildings? To plan for persons having to crawl in smoke would appear to me to be expecting a failure of the passive, active and management proceures in the building and therefore in contradiction of the Prnciples of Prevention.

I agree that low level lighting and signage may be a suitable risk control measure in some situations - cinemas, theatres, aircraft, ships, where there is a combination of other risk factors.

Do we know what the original intention of the ISO was?

[Ken Taylor]

It's an observation, Jim, rather than a statistic - and I agree with your comments.