INDUSTRIAL FIRE TEAMS

[gcf371]

I partially agree with some of the comments made on this messageboard about the competence of industrial firefighters.

I am one myself and would never pretend to be as highly qualified or knowledgeable as Proffesional firefighters.

I do resent some remarks made about us being "dangerous" however.

I can assure you that our fire team take firefighting very seriously, and safety is our paramount prioity.

SOmetimes I do feel we are mocked by those who call themselves proffesional firefighters, their attitude has always seemed to be that we are "pretenders", "have a go hero's" and such.
We never pretend to be what wwe are not we are there just to try and help and negativity doesn t help things

Yes there should be national standards fire industrial brigades YES there should be greater imput from management but this is private industry where money is king , and you talk about unions well i have to say theyu wont help here - it needs to be a government pushed capmaign to improve training standards for Industrial Fireifghters

[dave bev]

gcf - i think you may not be up tp speed with the suite of national occupational standards and the avaialbility of nvq's or for our scottish folk snvq's (pretty imaginative that one, eh!)
why n ot take alook you may find that the standards you refer to actually do exist, and theyre not just for local authority brigades, they apply right across the 'fire' family?

[Me]

GCF371
I agree with the comments that some so called professional fire fighters think industrial brigades are dangerous. It has been their belief for a long time and I don’t think that the arrogance will change no matter what happens. They will however always take your money off you to train you and tell you don’t worry we will be there to show you how. Industrial brigades can save a company not just it premises and cash but also it reputation. I know of certain brigades in the country that have to do as they are told by industrial brigades when they go on site as they have know knowledge of what they are dealing with.
Part of the arrogance of the professional fire fighter comes from the officer mentality that’s does exist in the British fire service.  It’s the old we know best so please push off and don’t interfere.
I trained industrial fire fighters for many years and I can tell you some of the training fire they fought at the end of there five day course many professional fire fighters would never see in there service.
Don’t feel mocked by them at all some of them never fight any real fires and never see much in their whole service.  They tend to be the most vociferous. Chin up and don’t let them grind you down you are as good as them.

[Me]

GCF371
Forgot to add they feel the same way about retained fire fighters as well.

[Ddraig72]

Morning/Evening all,

Just signed up/in. I work as a full time Firefighter for a private company. We cover Air traffic Control near heathrow. About 90% of our team are retained with various brigades... Kent, Hampshire, Bedfordshire, Devon and Surrey. We have some ex wholetime and ex military. I am one of the few that came off the street and recieved my training from Derbyshire Fire and rescue Service and Surrey Fire and Rescue.

I see that many of you have the same issues that we come up against... be they small minded wholetime local boys attitudes or the BIG boss man's attitude towards training and his prized purse strings. London Fire Brigade are our 'cavalry' and we have seen a change in their attitude towards us. We set up drills with them and they soon learned that we have many skills to offer. Especially when it came to specialised info and guidelines in deep, dank smoke logged basements....

We are due to close down in 2007. Can anyone tell me of any Industrial fire units in or around London and the Home counties?

Much appreciated.

Stay safe

[messy]

DD

It's pleasing to note that LFB personnel have changed their attitude (see Colin it can happen!).

I no longer work in that area, but I once knew the LAATC very well (it used to have the biggest/most complicated VESDA system I have ever seen) and wonder what is planned with the site after closure??

Also what happens to your team after the big day??

[Ddraig72]

Well, a small world indeed. Various rumours surround the site... latest is that the American forces are looking at it. The VESDA is still very much alive and well here too. The company have fallen short on all of their early promises and a recent merger has left us a little dead in the water. So we will all end up going our seperate ways. Sad but true.
So in what way were you involved with site Messy? MOD?

[messy]

No mate.

LFB. Stationed nearby, and on the PDA for the site. Went on several visits and a few exercises, not to mention 1 or 2 jobs there.

Also had a mate who was part of the RAF fire team (that shows how long ago) who had access to the facilities there (Gym and bar -usually in that order!!)

[Ddraig72]

I see. My mate Shaun has just finished his basic with London and is to be based at hillingdon in the next few weeks on Blue Watch.
The bar has been closed down for a long time now... shame! We have had hayes come down a few times for some 11d's and a couple of guideline drills.

[Eddie]

With all of the risk categories are being dropped by the government, and therefore guaranteed response times no more. Won’t this put the emphasis back on the companies to arrange adequate fire cover, thereby upping the importance of industrial fire fighters?

Eddie

[jasper]

Wonders if all the good ideas in the above posts will be inplimented due to the recent fire?

[Tractorman9]

Hi - Great debate !!
Two of my relatives used to be full time firefighters for ICI - is there a list of all private/industrial full time sites held on this web site or anywhere on the web ? I know there are teams based at oil refinery's, some high risk checmical plants & at for BNFL at some of their sites (*Sellafield ?). I also belive that the defence fire service still maintnains crews at some military linked sites such as ammo dumps etc ? The DEFRA organsitaiton ,maintains crews possibly such as Porton Down now that they are privatised - any ideas ? Is there a full list of all non home office or MOD sites ?  I know others have part time crews - even BT has  volunteer crews at thier Madley Heath earth station (2 pumps) and at the Research site at Ipswich (2 pumps again) - It's the full time sites I'd like to find out more on - any ideas ?

[chris]

As you can see from the responses to this section, there are few willing to come into the light and discuss their role. I don’t know of any private industry fire related web pages, probably because companies don’t want to advertise their existence.

After the largest “B” class fire in recent years not one word from anyone whom was there, come on why are you all so reluctant to discuss? Ff are usually quite vocal about their trade but seem meek and reserved in this instance.  

I would have imagined nuclear, chemical industries etc, you really do surprise me that BT has volunteer cover; please tell more?

[Tractorman9]

Hi
During the strike in Fire service in 1974 (?), BT decided that the risk to the Martlesham Research Facility was high - it is after all the biggest Telecomms lab site in the world with chemicals, gas, fuel risk plus the buildings and the fact that 6000 worked on site at its peak. It was the old RAF Martlesham Heath site - famous for Douglas Bader et al. ....The Post Office (as it was then) purchased 2 old Essex pumps and set up a 4 'watch' volunteer crew who were also on call via pager in silent hours. The security guards on site man a 'communications room' which includes fire alarms etc.

After the strike BT decided to keep the on site fire service and it survives until today. I don’t actually work there but know one of the crew and they train with both Essex and Suffolk Fire service as well as holding annual competitions with other private services such as Felixstowe Dock service (another volunteer crew) and others such as the volunteer crew from ICIC Paints at Stowmarket. BT also has 2 pumps at the vast Madley Heath satellite earth station in Herefordshire. Again I don’t have anything more specific apart form that both site are purely volunteer although I believe they are paid a retainer of some description. Whether BT has any other crews at other sites I'm unsure but if any then Goonhilly in Cornwall would probably be the most likely as it is the biggest earth station in Europe I believe.

If any one else logs onto this site and has any information on the following, these are the only companies I know that maintain full time services -

BNFL - Douneray and Delafield - anywhere else?

ICI / Astra Zeneca - Huddersfield - anywhere else ?

Oil Refinery's  - Immingham ? Scotland ? - not sure where they all are - are they all full time cover ?

DERA / Qnetica - ex Defence Fire Service crews at some of their airfields / high risk sites ?

Chemical Works on Teesside / Cheshire - there are full time crews here but these all seem shrouded in unnecessary secrecy - surely someone must have some info on these ? I know that BASF have a crew and that some of the companies have pooled resources to create a sort of private emergency fire and ambulance service on Teesside

DFS - These obviously cover most military airfields and share other support with the RAF fire Service but they also cover non flying locations such as RAF Fylindales Radar site near Whitby (2 crews full time) and ammo dumps and fuel depots but again no details know. The RAF also supply a military full time crew at the Rudloe Manor tunnels complex near Corsham with a domestic pump.

Interestingly the MoD has privatised the airfield cover on Ascension Isle to SERCO although they are all ex DFS or RAF. As far as I know this is the only operational RAF site that has had it's fire cover privatised.

As for industrial crews if any readers can help with info, book names or web site , I'm a willing reader !

Cheers

[Tractorman9]

Hi
During the strike in Fire service in 1974 (?), BT decided that the risk to the Martlesham Research Facility was high - it is after all the biggest Telecomms lab site in the world with chemicals, gas, fuel risk plus the buildings and the fact that 6000 worked on site at its peak. It was the old RAF Martlesham Heath site - famous for Douglas Bader et al. ....The Post Office (as it was then) purchased 2 old Essex pumps and set up a 4 'watch' volunteer crew who were also on call via pager in silent hours. The security guards on site man a 'communications room' which includes fire alarms etc.

After the strike BT decided to keep the on site fire service and it survives until today. I don’t actually work there but know one of the crew and they train with both Essex and Suffolk Fire service as well as holding annual competitions with other private services such as Felixstowe Dock service (another volunteer crew) and others such as the volunteer crew from ICI Paints at Stowmarket. BT also has 2 pumps at the vast Madley Heath satellite earth station in Herefordshire. Again I don’t have anything more specific apart from that both site are purely volunteer although I believe they are paid a retainer of some description. Whether BT has any other crews at other sites I'm unsure but if any then Goonhilly in Cornwall would probably be the most likely as it is the biggest earth station in Europe I believe.

If any one else logs onto this site and has any information on the following, these are the only companies I know that maintain full time services -

BNFL - Douneray and Sellafield - anywhere else?

ICI / Astra Zeneca - Huddersfield - anywhere else ?

Oil Refinery's  - Immingham ? Scotland ? - not sure where they all are - are they all full time cover ?

DERA / Qnetica - ex Defence Fire Service crews at some of their airfields / high risk sites ?

Chemical Works on Teesside / Cheshire - there are full time crews here but these all seem shrouded in unnecessary secrecy - surely someone must have some info on these ? I know that BASF have a crew and that some of the companies have pooled resources to create a sort of private emergency fire and ambulance service on Teesside

DFS - These obviously cover most military airfields and share other support with the RAF fire Service but they also cover non flying locations such as RAF Fylingdales Radar site near Whitby (2 crews full time) and ammo dumps and fuel depots but again no details that I know. The RAF also supply a military full time crew at the Rudloe Manor tunnels complex near Corsham with a domestic pump.

Interestingly the MoD has privatised the airfield cover on Ascension Isle to SERCO although they are all ex DFS or RAF. As far as I know this is the only operational RAF site that has had it's fire cover privatised.

As for industrial crews if any readers can help with info, book names or web site , I'm a willing reader !

Cheers