Author Topic: Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?  (Read 38754 times)

terry martin

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Two fire authorities have recently revised its secondary employment policies.

  The first FRS now prohibits all its employees from being involved in any employment or buisness relating to fire safety matters whether it is within the authorities area or not. This includes carrying out risk assessments, owning a company or being an MD of a company that provides FRA's. This also extends to authority personnel who are not actively carrying out fire safety duties. The grounds for this being 'conflict of interest'.

  The second FRS now allows its employees to carry out RA's (even within their authority) with the view that 'who better to carry out the RA than the Auditors themselves, at least we'll have consistency'. The only restriction being, you cannot audit a place you have Risk Assessed.

The vastly differing views amazes me.

Who's right?

Offline Mike Buckley

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 05:02:12 PM »
The one which doesn't get caught in a major b***s up.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Chris Houston

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 06:46:05 PM »
The first one.

You don't tend to see police officers selling fee based serivices on complying with the law on the side, or HSE inspectors, I don't expect it of a fire service either.

Offline shaunmckeever

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 07:21:15 PM »
Does this mean full time firefighters cannot perform retained firefighter duties?

Offline wee brian

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 09:55:57 PM »
Workingin your own patch is an outrageous conflict of interest. I keep hearing of Inspecting Officers dropping business cards with people asking for advice. This has got to be stamped out.

Offline Ken Taylor

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 01:10:37 AM »
The second FRS will be in a difficult position if their 'auditor'/inspecting officer decides that his/her colleague's FRA is inadequate or if, in defence of enforcement action, the duty holder responds by reference to the FRA. This selling of related services by enforcement authorities or their current employees has got to be stopped. The HSE have been known to give advice but I have never thought of inviting them to carry out my H&S risk assessments for me.

Offline MrH

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 08:15:02 AM »
I have to agree with wee brian, don't work your own patch, there must be a conflict of interest

Offline CivvyFSO

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2007, 08:44:11 AM »
I would say there is a definite conflict of interest working within your area. It is also an unfair advantage in getting business in the first place.

But on the other hand... Is it any different from Fire Authorities supplying commercial fire training?

terry martin

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 01:17:40 PM »
Quote from: wee brian
Workingin your own patch is an outrageous conflict of interest. I keep hearing of Inspecting Officers dropping business cards with people asking for advice. This has got to be stamped out.
I must say I’ve never heard of I.O's dropping business cards. all the I.O's I know are far to concerned of the consequences (it is a sackable offence). but i do agree with wee Brian that it is an outrageous conflict of interest to carry out RA's within your authorities area. the list of possible complications is endless.

 However, I do not see too much of an issue with serving FRS employees who do not work within a fire safety capacity, carrying out RA's in other authority areas.

 If they are not an I.O, or working within Fire Safety, and its not their area, then in my opinion there's no conflict of interest.

Offline Mike Buckley

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2007, 02:48:07 PM »
But if they are not an IO or working in Fire Safety, how competent are they?
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline jasper

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2007, 04:06:29 PM »
do they not earn enough money in their normal job?

Offline Martin Burford

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2007, 04:27:26 PM »
Mike
I shall be interested in Terry's response to your point.
Conqueror

Offline Martin Burford

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2007, 04:31:51 PM »
Civvy
There is no conflict of interest in extinguisher training by FA's.....its hardly an enforcement matter who trains people to use extinuishers.
Conqueror

Offline jokar

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2007, 06:28:32 PM »
If you or a partner own a premises and you are a serving firefighter in Brigade 1, how do you comply with the legislation as you are competent and therefore must carry out and FRA yourself?

Offline Ken Taylor

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Is carrying out a FRA as a serving FRS auditor a conflict of interest?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2007, 06:51:30 PM »
You may have just found the one exception, Jokar.