Sprinklers in schools

[Bill G]

Another question I am afraid - does anyone have any details regarding where we are with sprinklers in schools. I was told that although the requirement never ended up in ADB there was a directive from the DFeS that all new builds were to be fitted with them .

[Pip]

DFES would like all new schools to have sprinklers,and have issued a 'sprinkler assessment tool' to 'help' you come to a decision.Trial runs have indicated that it always comes up with the same solution-ie sprinklers.A lot of people in councils etc not happy with it-it is not refined enough.Doesnt take into account self insuring counties.Also,difficult for counties to invest in this when other priorities of spending to get existing schools up to 'bench mark' standards eg fully enclosed protected staircases etc.Unless Gov make it a condition of New money for schools then take up will not be great(at least not in my area).Everybody wants sprinklers,but not if they have to foot the bill.Might be okay for a small,zurich insured county with only a small refurb/new build programme,but not much help to the 'big' boys.Probably only way to get them in all new builds is to legislate,which gov has refused to do.

[jokar]

Lets face it, there is a sway of opinion that sprinklers are the be all and end all of fire safety problems.  Property protection is the major player as the loss of a school facility will cost major money to replace.  A cost benefit analysis will ahve to be undertaken by each County or London Borough to assess this situation and make decisions based on that analysis.

[John Webb]

Not only is there the replacement cost of building a new school, but also the cost of temporary accommodation, possibly bussing pupils to another school or schools, to say nothing of the indeterminate costs of loss of course work, pupil records etc.
Sprinklers have a good record at controlling/extinguishing fires.  As a tax-payer I'd prefer to see public buildings protected. I am particularly concerned about schools which are the frequent target of arson.

[wee brian]

AS pip so clearly explained this has now been sorted. The majority of new schools will now be sprinklered.

[Bill G]

You would like to think so wouldn't you ! But there is no evidence of it being applied . We are no different than any other area of the country and we see very little provision of sprinkleres in new build project .

[wee brian]

There a gestation period for these things, the schools you are seeing being built were designed a year or more ago.

[saddlers]

Would anyone like to point out the location of this assessment tool. I have struggled to find it via technical libraries and the internet, but it may just be a case of me looking in the wrong place. Does anyone know if there is an intention to incorporate this into BB100 when it finally appears?

[Pip]

AS pip so clearly explained this has now been sorted. The majority of new schools will now be sprinklered.

irony wee brian!
Sprinkler provision will be patchy at best.

[Chris Houston]

The cost of the loss of school buildings in the UK to fire (most of which is arson) is about 100 million a year.  The indirect cost of the transportation, the loss of community facilities etc are massive and there are so many costs that can't be measured, the loss of moral to staff and pupils the loss of teaching aids that took years to accumulate.  It is incredible that this is allowed to happen.  Of our 28,000 or so schools in the UK only a few hundred are full sprinklered, although already a few of these have been saved.  The statistics on sprinklers are excellent, in addition to protecting the building and contents, the life safety risk can be improved.  

Why these are not fitted in the UK's schools, or at least in the school at greater risk of arson attack (high schools, inner city schools, school with crime problems) disappoints me, as a tax payer.

[Redone]

Help, where is the assessment tool?

[Pip]

The cost of the loss of school buildings in the UK to fire (most of which is arson) is about 100 million a year.  The indirect cost of the transportation, the loss of community facilities etc are massive and there are so many costs that can't be measured, the loss of moral to staff and pupils the loss of teaching aids that took years to accumulate.  It is incredible that this is allowed to happen.  Of our 28,000 or so schools in the UK only a few hundred are full sprinklered, although already a few of these have been saved.  The statistics on sprinklers are excellent, in addition to protecting the building and contents, the life safety risk can be improved.  

Why these are not fitted in the UK's schools, or at least in the school at greater risk of arson attack (high schools, inner city schools, school with crime problems) disappoints me, as a tax payer.

It dissapoints me as well,not to mention the money wasted in iraq,failed nhs computer systems,id cards and child support (ha ha )agencies.But where is the money to come from?Central Gov won't pay,local councils have other priorities on trying to meet statutory obligations-there isn't enough left over to retro fit on all schools or even put in all new schools.Can't raise council tax because they are capped,not enough money to reach minimum standards,so sprinklers,no matter how much we think we should have them, will not be widespread until they are legislated for.

[Chris Houston]

I think it would be hard to argue for retro fitting, but I think the cost vs benefit (which is not a simple sum - because so many fo the costs are not easily measurable) supports them being fitted in new schools.

That said, too many people will just weight up the cost of sprinklers vs reduced insurance premiums and if the former is higher won't fit them.

[Ken Taylor]

Do we have anything by way of comparison between insurance premium discount for sprinklers and installation cost? Having been involved in a number of new school building projects, I've never won a request for sprinklers by reference to those holding the 'purse strings'.

[Chris Houston]

Insurance companies tend to give about 65% off the fire premium.  This saving along may take a school 15 to 20 years to break even.  But that's assuming that insurance premiums are the only saving, and of course they are not.  Sprinklers also allow architects greater design freedoms, for example larger compartment sizes - and there are all the other savings mentioned before.

One difficulty however is that most of the UK's schools are not insured on a stand alone insurance policy, they are 1 of X hundred schools in a local authority.  This makes it much more difficult.  The largest insurer of these schools typically will pay out for zero pounds up for fire damage to schools that are fully sprinklered, given the deductibles (or excesses) can be in the region of 100K to 1 Million, this is significant.  

To persuade someone that sprinkles are needed, all the savings need to be considered, the greater architectural freedoms, the insurance premium savings, the 3 years of interuption it will take to build the new school, the human cost to pupils, parents, teachers and other users of the school.....I could write a long list here, but don't want to repeat myself too much!