Do I have to fit new doors?

[CivvyFSO]

Surely it is retrospective, in so far as compliance with any of the old guides does not necessarily mean that you have taken all reasonable precautions. "Adapting to technical progress" could be cited?

If, to meet travel distances, you need to form a protected escape route/storey exit then FD30S doors would generally be required.

Although a reasonable option to me would be just to retro-fit strips and seals to the ground floor doors, depending on the possiblity of a fire in one of the upstairs rooms cutting off the means of escape for the person in the adjacent/opposite room.

[Big T]

I was under the impression this was a simple design wioth no dead ends, excessive travel distances or high risk areas?.

[kurnal]

Adapting to technical progress... hmmm.

The old doors passed the old BS476 test with 25mm rebates. Then they changed the test to incorporate a positive pressure gradient in the furnace and seals became necessary to pass the new test.

It was not the intention to write off overnight every door that had passed the old test. New work warrants best practice, but if still serviceable leave the old doors in place.

How many of you brigade FSOs drive around in a fire brigade van with no airbags or just a drivers airbag, and no ABS brakes? How many of you demand that your employer replace the fleet of vehicles because most new cars have curtain airbags or ABS?  Is this what is meant  by adapting to technical progress?

[brayman]

I was under the impression this was a simple design wioth no dead ends, excessive travel distances or high risk areas?.

It is.
The landing is no more than 10 feet long and the ground floor no longer than 15 feet.
The builders didn't waste any space on those days!

[Fishy]

The Risk Assessment Company say that the doors meet regulations but recommend fitting new doors! They aren't keen on taking on the Fure Safety Officer.

What a cop-out!  They ought to be ashamed of themselves...

Can't really give you advice on whether the doors need changing or not - the Fire Officer has seen it and has made a professional judgement - I haven't and so cannot.  However, if you have had your own professionals in and their judgement is different, they really should be obliged to support their opinions in front of the FSO.  In my opinion, they shouldn't charge you for doing this either!

At the end of the day, if the doors are of a standard that would pass the old BS tests of 25 years ago, they're solid and 44mm thick or more, and there's no significant damage or alteration to door or frame, no glazing, vent grilles or thin panels, then you could probably construct a pretty strong argument that some surface-fitted fire and smoke seals would be enough to give performance near enough FD30S to mitigate the risk.  The smoke seals are particularly important - the 25mm rebate was 'standard' for fire doors for years, but will make little difference to the smoke resistance of the doorset and in these circumstances that's really what you're after.

[firelawmac]

So long as you can be confident that what you have done is reasonably practicable, and are confident if taken to task by the enforcing authority you have shown due dilligence you have to make a decision yourself.

This also applies if notice is served and you dont agree with the requirements, you have the right of appeal and also the option to request a determination from the secretary of state.

I would also be questioning the credibility of the Risk assessment company based on the comment about taking on the fire safety officer.

[nearlythere]

The Risk Assessment Company say that the doors meet regulations but recommend fitting new doors! They aren't keen on taking on the Fure Safety Officer.

What a cop-out!  They ought to be ashamed of themselves...

Can't really give you advice on whether the doors need changing or not - the Fire Officer has seen it and has made a professional judgement - I haven't and so cannot.  However, if you have had your own professionals in and their judgement is different, they really should be obliged to support their opinions in front of the FSO.  In my opinion, they shouldn't charge you for doing this either!

At the end of the day, if the doors are of a standard that would pass the old BS tests of 25 years ago, they're solid and 44mm thick or more, and there's no significant damage or alteration to door or frame, no glazing, vent grilles or thin panels, then you could probably construct a pretty strong argument that some surface-fitted fire and smoke seals would be enough to give performance near enough FD30S to mitigate the risk.  The smoke seals are particularly important - the 25mm rebate was 'standard' for fire doors for years, but will make little difference to the smoke resistance of the doorset and in these circumstances that's really what you're after.

Sounds like the RA company has shares in the fire door company.

[nearlythere]

This is really where there is a big problem with Risk Assessments. The retrospective application of standards is going to cost an absolute fortune.
To my mind Fishy is right in that if it was OK then, it is OK now. Otherwise we are going to run out of space for discarded fire doors, safety lights, fire alarm systems, glazed panels and partitions, fire extinguishers etc.
Think of the environmental impact?