Timber Fire Escapes

[CivvyFSO]

I have looked at it that way also. So long as the alternative is seperated sufficiently so a fire cannot take out both then it should be ok.

BUT... I am sure that the hotel in Newquay SHOULD have had a protected internal staircase and anybody risk assessing protecting the external with FR glazing etc might have used the defence that a fire cannot take out both staircases.

[Pip]

If the stairs are required for means of escape,they need to be protected (enclosed if internal,protected with fire doors/glazing in accordance with ADB if external.)Being seperated from each other is not sufficient.

[wee brian]

Yes - in a new building - but the question is - when would I upgrade all the windows in an exisitng building? - that's a risk based judgement.

[AnthonyB]

Just because it was OK in the past (when they didn't know any better) doesn't mean it should be OK now. But as you say prioritising the need can be difficult as responsible persons do not have bottomless pockets.

I would consider sleeping accomodation such as hotels a high priority though.

[wee brian]

Me too

[Ken Taylor]

Protection of all external stairs forming part of the MoE has got to be better. There can be access from different storeys and stairs tend to traverse the face of buildings at diagonals so that persons joining them at a higher level may well not appreciate the proximity of the stair to the location of the fire at a lower level and so not choose the safer option of the available routes.

[kurnal]

Thats a good point Ken. And having chosen the wrong route in such a case it may not be possible to get back into the building if all doors have self closers and are secure from the outside.

But again what if on its traverses across the face of the building the escape route passes across a different fire compartment? A fire exit in a compartment wall is usually classed as a storey exit? We dont tend to look at fire safety provision beyond the compartment involved in fire.

Many of the old mills often had extensive external escapes such as you describe, often steep and narrow- typically 500mm. and invariably unprotected. If I come across these in industrial or commercial use I may also not ask ask for the glazing to be upgraded if the sprinklers are still operational.

Has anyone come across georgian wired glazing in uPVC frames? Was any certification available? I have seen this regularly and never yet seen any evidence of fire performance.

[wee brian]

Georgian wire in UPVC - Not a hope.

[Hertsmere]

Dear all

We are moving to our offices to a building that was built in 1975.
We will be occupying the ground and first floor.

The only fire escape is a wooden staircase that looks pretty ok.

Does this (a wooden staircase) confirm under Fire Safety regulations and will the insurer insure us?

Your help is much appreciated.

Pradip

[CivvyFSO]

Do you mean the only internal staircase is made from wood, or you have a normal internal staircase AND an external wood one?

[kurnal]

Good point civvy- I had read it as an external but it may be a single internal staircase.

Hertsmere- You will need to carry out a fire risk assessment of the new offices.

This will take into account the size of the buildings and how far people have to travel to reach the nearest exit,  the layout and arrangement of the staircases, whether the internal staircase is open plan or enclosed by materials that will give some protection to people from a fire as they leave the building.

If it is an external wooden staircase is it protected by fire resisting wals, windows and doors beneath or adjacent to it.

If the wooden staircase is in good condition, not rotten or covered in green slime, and if there is enough borrowed lighting for people to see their way down it during working hours it should be ok.

[Dinnertime Dave]

When I encounter unprotected glazing alongside external fire escapes I do not recommend it be upgraded in all circumstances.

In sleeping accommodation, according to national guidance,  all means of escape staircases should be protected routes so I always recommend those serving sleeping accommodation be upgraded.

But for commercial and industrial premises the requirement is to ensure a fire cannot simultaneously take out multiple escape routes, and indeed in a building with two internal staircases often only one needs to be a protected route. So the same would hold good if one of the stairs was external- as long as the staircases have sufficient separation from each other  and a fire cannot take out both routes plain glazing may be fine.

Comments welcome.

Whilst I agree with kurnal`s first point of not recommending an upgrade in all circumstances, the length of an escape route must also in my opinion be taken into account what ever the purpose group of the building. if a person escaping a fire is committed to an escape route then that person should not have to retrace their steps due to a lack of FR glazing.

[nearlythere]

Dear all

We are moving to our offices to a building that was built in 1975.
We will be occupying the ground and first floor.

The only fire escape is a wooden staircase that looks pretty ok.

Does this (a wooden staircase) confirm under Fire Safety regulations and will the insurer insure us?

Your help is much appreciated.

Pradip

A fire risk assessment would determine whether you need a "fire Escape".
The existance of some exit doors and stairways does not mean they are necessary for MOE.

[Ken Taylor]

Never seen Georgian-wired in uPVC, Kurnal - but plenty in metal and wood. Schools have traditionally been full of the stuff - said to be both for fire resistance and 'safety glazing' - and no BS compliance evidence for that either.

[kurnal]

I have recently come across three cases of georgian wired in PVC frames on external escapes so it may be a growing trend- in Walsall, Oldham and Mansfield