Key Skills Training

[johno67]

Has any trainer out there had to incorporate the key skills into any of their training, especially in the fire safety field?

[toidi]

Johno67

For the benefit of a dinosaur- what do you mean by key skills?

[johno67]

Government initiative to raise general standards of education in the workplace: Application of number; communication; information technology; working with others; problem solving; and improving own learning and performance. They have been signposted (i.e. where they should be included) in the National Occupational Standards for Fire Safety. I was wondering if anyone had included them in their teaching syllabus, but as yours is the only reply I'm guessing not. It's all very new to me, but I have discovered that there are different levels, with level 2 (GCSE grade A-C) being the one we should be working towards, and testing and certification are available for the first 3. A portfolio is normally built up in order that an individual can show that they have addressed all of the elements within each key skill. The tricky bit is how to include it in your teaching, but the kind people at LGE have done it for us.

[cbfire999]

The RAF Fire and Rescue Service deliver the 6 key skills over a 2 week period prior to their basic firefighter course starting.

[johno67]

The RAF Fire and Rescue Service deliver the 6 key skills over a 2 week period prior to their basic firefighter course starting.

Many thanks CB, do you know if they still do their training at RAF Manston?

[fireftrm]

We carry out an initial assessment of all new entrants to identify their existing skills for life levels, in literacy, numeracy and ICT. Specialist help is then given to anyone who is not at level2 in lit/num and L1 in ICT. Without these skills individulas would potentially struggle with the NVQ/NOS at Level3 and, if running a centre, is required by the NVQ awarding bodies. How many other NVQ centre FRS actually comply with the centre guidance, or even know the Key/Basic skill levels that are expected within the Ff Ops standards?

[toidi]

And here's me thinking that key skills were practical firefighting, building construction, situational assessment, leadership and making decisions !!

Well Feck me- at least I now know where we went right all those years ago when the most important thing about firefighting was being able to fight fires!  
How naive we were cos we didn't see the need for an NVQ or L1 in ICT at 2 in the morning when you had 2 pumps and 5 rescues to be done from a doss house well alight!

Could we not just run fire appliances with NVQ certificates in the back instead of experienced firefighters and they can deal with fires !!!!

Sorry for the rant - "Nurse I need changing again" !!!

[kurnal]

Fireftrm
Why cant we simply take the view that we used to in the old days that these were essential life skills- entry level qualifications. If you want a job as a firefighter you present yourself equipped with these basic skills. They are measured as part of the selection process and if you aint got the tools to do the job you dont get in.

This is exactly the approach taken with fitness levels on entry so why should these "skills for life" be any different?

If I dont have these skills on entry how on earth can I take in all the safety and technical instructions in the basic course (or maybe we dont do that any more either?)

If I apply for a job as a hairdresser I provide a sharp pair of scissors and its my responsibility to keep them that way. I dont expect my employer to check on them - they are tools for the job. And I cant go to my employer everytime they become blunt - sorry boss I shall have to cancel Mrs Miggins - my scissors are blunt again, you need to get them sharpened for me.

[toidi]

Spoke to a friends son who is a trainee firefighter and he says that he spends 2 hours a day filling in evidence for a SVQ and they have little or no time to do drills or basic maintenance which is done by the older firefighters!

He also said that the SVQ has nothing in it to do with firefighting or anything operational!!

This must be wrong or am I in the early stages of senility and don't realise it?

[fireftrm]

Kurnal - you are right we should have a pre-entry requirement, GCSE Grade C in English, Maths and IT would be a start. However we never have had any entry requirements and we should.

Toidi - two points firstly the 'no ops stuff in the SVQ' well your mate's son is telling some pretty huge porkies. There are three purely operational units out of the 7 you need - Unit 3, Search and Rescue endagered life, Uniot 4 Deal with Fires and other emergencies anmd Unit 5 Hazmats. The there is Unit 6 - which is basically 7.2.ds hydrants/resources and standard tests. Unit 1 is CFS and unit 2 about personal effectiveness, the other unit required can be chosen from 7 - Helping to develop your colleagues, 8 - Fire safety inspections or 9 - Driving. So the vast majority of the VQ is operational skill and knowledge based. Second point is that no one should need 2 hours a day filling in evidence for their VQ, it is unlikely that every day will even provide evidence worthy of inclusion. The evidence should not be daily it should be planned and assessed when required and when of value, not long lists of everything you do. If he is doingt this then his assessor is a numpty and maybe so is he? Maybe he has some pretty serious skills for life needs, which should have been assessed before he set off on a qualification? He is also a total liar about having no time for drills or basic maintenance, that is he is either lying to you, or to the SVQ portfolio he spends all his time entering evidence into, his assessor must also be fradulently carrying out their role as without evidence of simulations (i.e. basic ladder/BA rescue/pump scenarios) and maintenance - Unit 6.3, then there will not be real evidence of competence. So not doing the job because he is too busy entering that he has been doing it is definite fraud. Perhaps he and his assessor should be investigated and disciplined?

[pokkav]

I'm confused.
 I was a full time firefighter for 24 years and 2 days, when I had to retire due to reaching 55years of age.  I attained the rank of Sub Officer and had a distinguished career.
I recently applied to join the Retained Fire Section of the same brigade that I did my service with, only to be told that I failed my PQA assessment.  In no section of the certificate that I proudly have mounted on my wall does it say that this man had to retire because he no longer has the personal qualities or attributes to be a firefighter; do you think that this is a way of getting around the new age discrimination legislation to stop me from getting back in.
I am just turned 60 years of age, am as fit as I've ever been and have passed all the other entrance exams, written, practical and medical. I also live right behind the fire station that I have applied to serve at.
Does anybody know if there is a way of appealing against decisions based on PQA assessments? I'd be grateful for any information.

[kurnal]

pokkav
Have you tried the assessment on the fire gateway website?

https://www.fire.gov.uk/Careers/Firefighter/SSQ.htm

May give you some indication of where you went wrong- if at all.

[pokkav]

I've completed the self selection questionnaire, and it tells me that I could be suited to a career as a firefighter.
        It tells me that I'm ok as far as effective communication, commitment to diversity, confidence and resilience, commitment to excellence and commitment to development go, but that I might find it difficult to meet the requirements in the areas of working with others, openness to change, situational awareness and problem solving are concerned.
What tosh.
I was an operational Sub Officer for the last ten years before I retired, in charge of hundreds of incidents including large fires, RTAs, special services and all the training, fire safety and community tasks that are undertaken on a wholetime station.  This was all done with no adverse critisism or censure; surely I can't have lost all this experience and expertise as is implied by the PQA results.  It is my belief that the PQA test is fundamentally flawed, and I wonder how many good potential recruits have been lost to the fire service as a result.

[fireftrm]

You passed all the tests untiland except the PQA assessment? Well the new selection process has PQAs in it from the start, the appliaction form the selection papers - all PQA based, So the part you must have failed is the interview? As the questions are based on examples from you recent times these were unlikey to include any fire service ones as 5 years had gone by?
You can ask for feedback but you cannot appeal any part of the test if you fail, you fail.  Any areas that you are weak in may be just as due to having been a SubO as long as you were, the PQAs are to test the ability to be a Ff, you may be thinking too hard about what your experience tells you as a manager rather than as a newbie?

[pokkav]

You are correct, it was the interview that I failed, and I have not been told on what, only that I was unsuccessful.  
Since I retired from the Fire Service I have worked in a Housing Department of a Local Authority, dealing with members of the public and working in teams of people from all walks of life. I have done this very successfully, and I'm sure that I would be given excellent references by the Local Authority if asked for.
Again, I believe that the whole concept of the PQA assessments is flawed, that it is too open to different interpretations by different examiners and that it really has no bearing at all upon the ability of candidates to do the job of being a firefighter.
This is not just sour grapes because I have failed the interview.
I have written to the Chief Fire Officer of the Brigade, (the same Chief Fire Officer who signed my leaving certificate on which it says "in recognition and appreciation of devoted and loyal service to the community in general and the Fire Service in particular"), to see if the decision can be overturned and find out if common sense and straight thinking can be used to overturn a decision made by asking obscure questions on subjects unrelated to being a firefighter.

ps

I've since been told of 3 excellent retained firefighters in the same Brigade, all with between 10-15 years experience, and with whom I have served with in the past, who also failed their PQA assessments when they tried to become wholetime firefighters. Yet they are still serving as retained firefighters in the same Brigade.

The world has gone mad.