RFU fail to take their seat

[G]

From the FBU webpages. Now just think, the RFU have been screaming out for a place on the NJC for many years, finally after cutting the qualifying membership numbers to enable this . . .  read on




The FBU remains the only organisation negotiating on behalf of firefighters working the retained duty system at a national and local level, following the refusal of the Retained Firefighters Union (RFU) to take up their seat on the National Joint Council after having lobbied so hard for it.  
The requirement for this organisation to have a seat on the NJC was that it only had to show that it had a membership of 1/14 of the uniformed fire service  –  that’s just 7.1%.

This extremely low threshold was granted – it was previously 1/12 - following heavy lobbying by the RFU, and backing for it by employers. The employers also demanded that the RFU obtain a seat on the NJC prior to any count of membership being made. Both demands were agreed by the FBU.

The first meeting of the newly constituted NJC took place Friday 28 September. The RFU were invited to attend, subject to their agreement that they would submit their membership to a count by a reputable and independent body agreed by the NJC and that they would meet the costs.

But they will not be taking their place on the NJC and will not be submitting their membership for an independent audit. They have informed that they wish to concentrate instead on "organising their brigade and regional structures".

However, we believe the decision not to attend can only mean one thing – they cannot prove that they have even the extremely low number of members now required to have a seat.

[Chris Houston]

As an outsider, so forgive me if I have got the wrong end of the stick here, does it not seem odd that a union would spend it's time posting bad publicity about other unions? I would have throught they would have been too busy with all the issues that their members care about - beds, modernisation, safety..........

[swisstimmy]

Hi Chris. As an outsider you are right to post what you have said, but I feel that I and many will disagree with you. This is not about bad press from FBU to RFU its giving out the facts after the Traitors that are called the RFU moaned and whinged for years about not having a say. They have misled many about the size of their membership I am led to believe less than a 4,000 strong strike breaking membership, that is happy for the negotiations the FBU does i.e. pay conditions of service the list is endless. The RFU's origins go back to the strike of 1977 where they were strike breakers when Firemen were looking for better pay (less than a dustman) and longer working hours for what was then a very dangerous job with none of the Health and Sfety of now. I was a child that went through the 77 strike and we as a family felt it ( my father was W/T Fm) but it was worth it because the conditions and shift patterns of today still stand to some affect! So the RFU may say they want a place on the NJC but are lying and are unable to give a proper argument or discussion to any table. The RFU members may aswell burn their monthly subscriptions as they are no use to man or beast. Yes I am an FBU member and sit on the Brigade EC, but I am a moderate and sensible person that knows that the FBU are the only Union that can represent our collegues working the RDS. Its time for the RFU to stop making waves and if they are serious about their members and having a say on the NJC then they need to be honest about the size of membership and try straight talking for a change.
My intention is not to offend but to speak clearly and justifiably.

[G]

A response, albeit around the houses, from the new leader of the RFU.








FBU CIRCULAR: 2007HOC0537MW

I feel it necessary to correct the misinformation contained within the aforementioned FBU circular.

‘Following a review, a revised NJC Constitution was provisionally agreed. This would reduce the seats for both sides (employers and employees) to 12. Therefore any organisation seeking representation would need to demonstrate that it represented 1/12 of the workforce. A mechanism for seeking representation was also agreed.

However, following this, and following lobbying by the RFU, the employers sought to lower this threshold to 1/14.’

This is totally inaccurate, as you will see from EMP Circular 03/05 the reason for 14 seats each side was nothing to do with the RFU but to accommodate all the relevant political parties and devolved administrations within the UK.

‘During the past week we were informed that the RFU have withdrawn their request for a place on the NJC and would not be submitting their membership for an independent audit.’

Again more misinformation, the RFU has chosen not to take up the invitation to sit on the NJC at this first opportunity, we can sit on the NJC any time we like.

The RFU now has ‘full collective bargaining rights’ in more brigades than ever and it is here at local level that we are making a big difference to the working environment and conditions of our members.

Remember we all say that we do not do the job for the money, so why should it matter so much as to whether we are on the NJC or not, it hasn’t stopped thousands of fire service employees joining the RFU in the past. The reason people do join is because they know that locally we are the only union who defends the RDS station from closing, we are the only union who fought to stop the demotion of Sub Officers in charge of stations and we are the only union fighting for the RDS to be awarded 100% of the CPD allowance.

It’s disappointing that we have to correct misinformation from another fire service union, but it just proves how much of a threat they believe us to be!

[G]

'We're closing your station, what are you going to do about it?'

'Well we don't strike, so we will shout from the rooftops' . . . .

Quite.

Closed.

[G]

FBU RDS membership goes from strength to strength

The FBU’s membership among retained duty system (RDS) firefighters continues to grow as the organisation that claims it is the “first choice for firefighters on the retained duty system” is being deserted in droves in some parts of the country.

Whole stations are quitting the RFU for the FBU as RDS firefighters realise which organisation represents their real interests.

Major inroads are being made in Yorkshire and Humberside with as many as 60 new RDS members – with one whole station now 100% FBU - in North Yorkshire, a development that followed a road show by membership secretary Bryan Barrett that is only half way through.
In Strathclyde, the FBU is recruiting large numbers of RDS firefighters and now some 70% are FBU, with fire stations in Oban and Campbeltown in Argyll & Bute, now 100% FBU.

Membership growth among RDS firefighters is meanwhile expected to accelerate in the East Midlands (FBU region 6) as the Union carries out a tour of retained stations in Lincolnshire to explain the benefits of FBU membership.

Even in the RFU’s heartland of Norfolk, RDS firefighters have been ripping up their membership cards – some 50 odd – and they are heading for the FBU.

At Attleborough, site of what the RFU describe as their head office and the fire station from where the current and former RFU leaders hale, there are now FBU members for the first time, with four RDS firefighters signing up to the Union in the past six months.

Says FBU Norfolk brigade chair, Pete Greeves: “The RFU don’t hold branch meetings that anybody has heard of, so how do they know what their members really want? They can’t negotiate anything on behalf of their members.

“RDS firefighters know that if they want a voice in a union that represents all firefighters in the Service and if they want proper support when they are in times of need, there is only one organisation and that’s the FBU.”

“That’s why we are signing up members almost every week, many of whom are deserting an organisation that time and again has failed to deliver to RDS firefighters.”

RF who?

With the RFU haemorrhaging members all over, questions are being asked about just where the remaining membership of the RFU is. And these questions have only got louder since the RFU’s refusal last month to allow an independent audit of its membership, a step required to allow it to take up the offer of a seat on the National Joint Council.

The RFU appears to be labouring under the illusion that that seat is still being kept vacant for it at the National Joint Council, a seat it had campaigned so hard for with employers and the Government.

The fact is the new NJC Constitution has been agreed - and it doesn’t include anybody from the RFU on the employees side. There isn’t any empty seat waiting for them – not one. All 14 seats on the employees side are now held by FBU representatives.

The reality is that the RFU has been talking itself up – but it has no substance in membership terms.

Red-faces must abound in Government and among senior civil servants. In a bid to attack the FBU they championed the RFU – and they ended up falling for their own spin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seven RDS firefighters reinstated thanks to FBU representation

Seven sacked firefighters at West Midlands’ only retained fire station have been reinstated following representation by the FBU. The firefighters at Sedgley fire station faced charges of gross misconduct.

Senior managers had tried to close Sedgley fire station a number of years ago, but shelved plans after the FBU conducted a major public campaign. Had the decision to sack the firefighters been upheld then the fire station would have closed.

The main and only charge against the RDS firefighters was that they were 'complicit' in operating a system for turn outs -  the so-called washer system, which the brigade alleged delayed the appliance in turning out.

Local FBU officials challenged the brigade’s use of the word 'complicit' as none of the RDS firefighters were authors of the system and didn't know anything different from the time of joining. And then they succeeded in showing that the system did not delay the appliance at all.

One who was reinstated was reduced in role and further FBU member at Sedgley who remains dismissed will receive the full support of the FBU legal services.

The Sedgley fire crew were represented by Dave Whatton, Executive Council member for Region 7 (West Midlands), Tony Larose, regional official for Region 7 and West Midlands brigade membership secretary Chris Downes, with assistance from regional official Tony Nutting. Pete Preston and Harry Cotter from the National Retained Committee and Retained Executive Council member Tam Mitchell also helped with advice.

Says Dave Whatton:

“Sedgley may be the only retained fire station in the West Midlands. But retained firefighters in Sedgley are entitled to the same protection and access to the same resources of the Fire Brigades Union as firefighters in any other fire station in the brigade.

“As a Union we represent all uniformed staff in the UK fire service and we are committed to supporting and defending all firefighters regardless of duty system.”

[kurnal]

Hi London
Just out of interest how many members do you have in London working the retained duty system?

[fireftrm]

Good copy and paste from an FBU press release. So what about your own views?

[G]

Hi London
Just out of interest how many members do you have in London working the retained duty system?

You already know the answer to that one.

A big fat round 0.

But given that our 6000 members pay into the same fund that represents people who do work the RDS, I think it's fair to say I have more than a passing interest in that side of the Fire service.

[G]

Good copy and paste from an FBU press release. So what about your own views?

So press releases or news stories pertaining to the Fire Brigade are banned from the FireNet forums?

Personally I think the article is very factual, the RFU aren’t worth a jot when it comes to representation as grass roots level. They talk a good job, then stand back and let the Brigade management stamp all over the workforce. Great job, bet the 38 RFU members are bursting with pride.

Good news though, if London goes out over the proposed shift change, there will be scab positions galore to fill, I'm sure the RFU can fulfil that role amicably, it's about all they are good for.

[fireftrm]

I am sure that press releases aren't, but it would be nice if you actually wrote things yourself.

[G]

I am sure that press releases aren't, but it would be nice if you actually wrote things yourself.

I believe my views, and that of the other 40'000 FBU members, regarding the 'RFwho' are pretty clear Mr firetrm.

Duplication is unnecessary, why spend time typing out the latest news when a nice chap from Coombe Road has already done it?
You should remember we all have a responsibility when it comes to lessening our Carbon Footprints.

Can I clarify anything for you?

London.

[kurnal]

Hi London
I think the point Fireftrm is making is that whilst your view are of great interest to the forum if we all just cut and pasted full press releases, codes of practice, advertising literature or anything else the system would soon grind to a halt and collapse. Much as I would love to paste great extracts from the new DCLG guidance for example in order to clarify concerns with the document this would lead to the same result.

Your first posting in this thread contained an extract with your comment- thats spot on.

I think in terms of the carbon footprint, composing your own thoughts for this forum rather than cutting and pasting is carbon neutral. Indeed to cut and paste the full text of something that is already available somewhere else is  simple duplication and means that server space and energy are used unnecessarily. Thats why many of us use hyperlinks instead.

I dont necessarily agree that just because you have 40000 members all of them would necessarily agree with the official FBU line on everything either. In many years as a member and as an official there were many occasions when I disagreed vociferously with union policy.

But welcome and please keep posting.

[fireftrm]

Copying, pasting or typing your own comments does nothing for, or against, your carbon footprint. A ridiculous point to try and make. Indeded, if the energy useage was worthy of saving then your work in going to the FBU website, copying, opening the Firenet one, pasting et al was a true and total waste of energy. There is already a press release part of this site and a full press out there in the real world. The FBU had already released the comments as a press release, to all members, who have signed up for electronic mail, and in paper form to every branch. So yours over duplication, no more, no less.

I find your views on the RFU of interest, coming from an organisation with no RDS members and probably little, if no, knowledge of what the RDS means.  I a m also interested to see that you have chosen to represent my views too, on whose authgority? As an FBU member I am not exactly delighted that you have chosen to publically state my opinion of the RFU, I would rather that I had the opportunity to discuss this myself. That you seem to have a crusade against the RFU, which I find odd as you have never had any reason to be in contact with them, or any of their members, is your free choice, but not that of 40,000 others - unless you have evidence that you have asked them and they have so said. You haven't, by the way, as I am one of them and I ain't been asked.

[G]

I find your views on the RFU of interest, coming from an organisation with no RDS members and probably little, if no, knowledge of what the RDS means.  I a m also interested to see that you have chosen to represent my views too, on whose authgority? As an FBU member I am not exactly delighted that you have chosen to publically state my opinion of the RFU, I would rather that I had the opportunity to discuss this myself. That you seem to have a crusade against the RFU, which I find odd as you have never had any reason to be in contact with them, or any of their members, is your free choice, but not that of 40,000 others - unless you have evidence that you have asked them and they have so said. You haven't, by the way, as I am one of them and I ain't been asked.

Why say it in two lines when you can write war and peace, and arrive at what you were trying to say 20 minutes ago?

If you don't agree with the stance on the strike breakers RFwho, then don't, you can imagine how much sleep deprivation that will cause me. You seem to have more of an issue with my particular Brigade and what our strong branches achieve.

I'll retract it when you come up with the evidence, bar a few alter egos’, that FBU members support and hold the RFwho in any form of regard.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Perhaps you were more delighted when their members were scabbing the last national strike, allowing the Government to sit back and do little to resolve it?

I've never had contact with the RFU?
That must be true then! You know zilchos nilchos about me or my role, never presume anything Mr Firetram

PS. Make time and use a spell checker.