Really old 240v only system

[blue-spud]

after a bit of guidance with the current fire alarm system that i have come across.  Its an old Gent 240v only system with no battery backup, this i know is not up to current regs and should be replaced.  I also know that the system should not be increased or modified without bringing it up to current regs but this is the problem.

Part of the area this system is in is being revamped from a storage area to a all singing demo area with new everything including a new addressable alarm system.  The old system is connecting 3 adjoining buildings.

My problem, which i admit may be because i am being petty, is that the fitters of the new alarm want to

1) remove only the bits that affect them (2 Call points and 1 sounder) as they can't have 2 different systems in the same area.  

2) Put a relay in place of the call points and sounders so that the new system will interface with the old one.

Both of these options sound to me like modifying the system so should i allow it?

[kurnal]

I would suggest that from an installers point of view
1- In the areas not covered by the new installation the system should be left no less compliant than it currently is.
2- The variations should be reported as variations and brought to the attention of the responsible person

From the RP point of view they should have a plan to improve the system across the whole of the site as soon as reasonably practicable.

Caution-This is my opinion but may not be technically the correct answer.

[Graeme]

my advice would be to forget about doing anything with a 240v system.

They should have been ripped by 1988 and  not only not to BS but against H+S(signs and signals) .

Technically you are breaking the law having one still in operation.

[blue-spud]

my advice would be to forget about doing anything with a 240v system.

They should have been ripped by 1988 and  not only not to BS but against H+S(signs and signals) .

Technically you are breaking the law having one still in operation.

I have covered this in the Risk Assessment carried out and made all parties aware of the failings of the system and the legal stance on it.  It has been budgeted to be replaced in the next year but just wanted to know if i was over reacting in my stance of it.

Guess i'm not?!?

kurnal - i hadn't looked at it that way so thanks for the possible direction

[AnthonyB]

Ditto the need to dump the 240V system, it will be at least 30+ years old and they've had 11 years to have replaced it since it became illegal, which is more than enough time to set aside funds for the work.

The thing should ideally be done in one go as unless it's somewhere that requires seperate systems off a central one (e.g. shopping centres) it will be a nightmare of different systems with varying standards of installation (usually poor as will be smaller systems put in by general contractors) mix of conventional & addressable, sounder types (bells/different electrical tones), AFD cover, open/closed protocol, etc.

[Steve_gb]

Does anyone have any reference to the H&S (signs and signals) i can quote to our client?

[Ricardo]

See

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1996/Uksi_19960341_en_1.htm

in particular the following:

Interpretation

2. fire safety sign" means a sign (including an illuminated sign or an acoustic signal) which—


(i)  provides information on escape routes and emergency exits in case of fire;


(ii)  provides information on the identification or location of fire-fighting equipment; or


(iii)  gives warning in case of fire;

also

Transitional provisions
    6.    These Regulations shall not have effect in relation to any fire safety signs lawfully in use immediately before the coming into force of these Regulations until 24 December 1998

and

8.    Signs requiring some form of power must be provided with a guaranteed emergency supply in the event of a power cut, unless the hazard has thereby been eliminated.