RRO Guidance Note 1 enforcement

[stevew]

Thanks NT

You are quite right I think that we are getting caught up in the words.  Your reference to the tea and biscuit money is on the same lines albeit not so sure as to the frequency and level of training required for the roll oops I mean role.   

[kurnal]

Where there is an employer, the employer is the Responsible Person. Period. (article 3)
The buck stops with the employer and responsibility cannot be delegated.

However he will need help to implement his general fire precautions and to appoint competent persons to assist  him in implementing the fire fighting and fire detection provisions (article 13) and the fire emergency plan (article 15)

The Responsible Person must  (In most cases- see sub paras 6 and 7 of article 18)) appoint one or more other competent persons to assist him in undertaking the preventive and protective measures  (article 18) and where possible employees should be considered for this tasks before bring in outside assistance.

So to summarise

If there is an employer, The employer is always the Responsible Person. The responsible Person under the Fire Safety Order may not be an actual  human being- it may be a corporate body, represented by the CEO or chairman.

The Responsible Person must appoint competent persons to assist- in the case of the example above this is  the office manager.The office manager is not the responsible person but can be held responsible for matters under their control, alongside the Responsible Person..

[Tom Sutton]

Kurnal are you saying the CP is there to only assist the RP in Art 13 and 15. Because I thought it was to assist the RP in all his duties like when you conduct a FRA you have been designate a CP to assist the RP to carry out his duties with regards to Art 9.

[nearlythere]

Kurnal are you saying the CP is there to only assist the RP in Art 13 and 15. Because I thought it was to assist the RP in all his duties like when you conduct a FRA you have been designate a CP to assist the RP to carry out his duties with regards to Art 9.

Sorry to butt in TW but my reading is that the responsible person must nominate competent persons, where necessary, to impliment measures. What is not there, unless it is hidden somewhere, is a requirement for the competent person to impliment the measures, unless the CP is deemed as a person with control to any extent, which I doubt.

[kurnal]

TW article 18 requires RPs to appoint competent persons to assist generally with the preventive and protective measures. Article 13 is specific to fire detection and fire fighting equipment (but really firefighting equipment for mitigation of fires) and article 15 relates to the emergency plan and persons to implement this. So 18 is the general catch all- relevant to the site manager or any other persons with specific duties delegated to them by the RP.

[messy]

And let's not forget that enforcement wise, it's both the RP and (in certain circumstances) the competent person that could end up in the dock as Article 5(4) states that competent persons may be considered as "being a person who has control of the premises to the extent that his obligation so extends".

[Tom Sutton]

NT you have lost me a little, my understanding is the role of a CP, if one is required, is to assist the RP. It is the role of the RP to implement any measures and the final responsibility lies with him/her.

Kurnal I see art 18 as requiring the RP to appoint CP's to assist him/her to implement the order, (all relevant articles) and I have based that on guidance note No 1 which says, “The responsible person must, subject to the exceptions in paragraphs (6) and (7), appoint one or more competent persons to assist them in undertaking the measure they need to take to comply with the requirements and prohibitions of this Order.