Copy of 1985 Building Regulations

[Keith Tarbuck]

Dear Members

Can any body help with my request? I am trying to get a copy of the 1985 Building Regulations, I have tried the several searches on the net without luck.

So if anyboby could assist or send me a copy k.tarbuck@libertyliving.co.uk

I would be most grateful

Keith

[kurnal]

Presumably you are looking for Aproved document B? Or the Regulations themselves? I do have some paper photocopies of some of the parts and some extracts of others- if you email me with exactly what you need I will see if I can help you out.

[Davo]

Keith

SI 1985 No 1065 can be downloaded from UK Statutory Instruments free of charge
There are also 2 DoE guides, one to the regs and one to Means of Escape

[Keith Tarbuck]

Many thanks for your response, yes it approved doc B, mainly to do with fire doors?

We provide student living accommodation (private sector) last year we purchased 3 exsisting accommodation building directly from Birmingham University, during this summer we have installed a new fully addressable fire alarm system (multi sensors in bedrooms) previously no detection al all in any bedrooms. We are also linked to REDCARE montoring and have 24 hour security.

During a recent audit by local Fire Safety officer he has issued a improvement notice to up grade all our doors?

Building constructed in 1990, hence why I am trying to get 1985 Building regs?

[kurnal]

Hi Keith been doing some digging in the archives and raking back in my mind.
As always please anybody correct me if I am talking cobblers.

ADB as we know it only came into being in the 1991 amendments to the Regs as a result of the Bickerdyke Allen Report when the responsibility for the enforcement of means of escape and access and facilities for firefighters was passed from the fire service to the building authority.

The 1985 Building Regulations incorporated the "Mandatory Rules for means of Escape" - I have found a copy of these and will scan and email a copy to those who need them- there are only 8 pages. The mandatory rules referred to other design codes - in the case of flats CP3 Chapter 4 part 1 1971. (I have a copy of that too but that is too big to scan- could photocopy)

For dwelling houses the mandatory rules referred to BS5588 section 1.1 1984
For Shops BS5588 part 2 1985
For Offices BS5588 part 3 1983. 1983
I have poor copies of part 2 and 3 but not section 1.1 for dwelling houses.

The final page of the mandatory rules covered loft conversions.

Now Keith whats the way forward for you? History lessons are all very well but what really matters is what is happening today and whether your doors are suitable and appropriate in the modern risk assessment led regime.
Why is the officer using an enforcement notice rather than giving you advice in the first instance? Has he followed the Enforcement Management model?
What standard were the doors when installed?- (CP3 had 4 types of door - T1- T4- nothing like the FD30 we know today but measured against the BS476 test aklthough the test methodology was different)

Are they still in good condition, on 3 hinges and a good fit in their frame- say 3mm gaps between leaf and frame?
Do you have fire and smoke seals? Is the frame in good condition and without any cavities between frame and wall?

If so there really is no justification for requiring their replacement. Bit like failing a 1990 Nova on its MOT because its brakes are not as good as the 2007 Corsa.

[Keith Tarbuck]

Kurnal, again many thanks, looking on the forum (Fire Safety) I read that somebody else has posted a question regarding the same subject.

Can I please take you up on your offer for the 8 pages "mandatory rules for means of escape".

can I really be cheeky and request that you email to: k.tarbuck@libertyliving.co.uk & m.nelson@libertyliving.co.uk

Your time and assistance in this matter is much appriciated

[kurnal]

I have emailed a PDF of the mandatory rules to you both, and also  dug a bit deeper.

In 1981 the Housing (Means of Escape from Fire in Houses in Multiple Occupation) Order was made followed a number of fires and the Home Office  produced a blue guidance document enforced by the local authority.  (I have a copy of this document)
If I recall correctly this guidance document was really aimed at existing buildings. Door standards are specified - doors to rooms were 30 minutes FR - but existing doors were allowed to be upgraded using the TRADA method.

On 14th May 1992 the Department of Environment issued new guidance to Local Authorities regarding enforcement of Section 352 of the Housing Act 1985 to make houses in multiple occupation fit for the number of occupants. Section 5 of Circular 12/92 dealt with technical aspects of means of escape from fire and associated fire precautions that Environmental Health Departments consider. Circular 12/92 superseded the earlier "Blue Guide", issued by the Home Office and was in force till recently.
So my bet is that your premises were built during the period that the Blue guidance was in force .for existing HMOs and mandatory rules in place for new build - still under the Housing Act 1985 part XI..

The missing link is still to confirm which technical standards document was used for HMOs to comply with the mandatory rules at the time- if anyone can help please shout up!

[wee brian]

Kurnal et al.

The first ADB was published in 1985. But, as you say, means of escape was covered by the mandatory rules.

Any road thats not really the issue here. The guidance issued in 1985 is irrelevant when considering compliance with current legislation.

ASs Kurnal says -If the doors are OK then leave them alone - If they are knackered then change them.