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Author Topic: C.a.r.p  (Read 24960 times)

Offline Rich

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C.a.r.p
« on: December 30, 2007, 07:08:05 PM »
Combined aerial rescue platform.  My brigade has just ordered 2 of these vehicles.  Basically they are a standard pumping appliance with a hydralic platform on the roof.  The idea is to have the right resources in the right place but we will not need the seperate Turntable Ladders.  I believe Strathclyde have some of these vehicles already.  Has anyone have any knowledge of these and was it at the expense of Ff's jobs?
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Offline John Webb

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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 11:14:46 AM »
The Fire Brigade Society's journal 'Fire Cover', issue 177, published last month, has a photo of a CARP on the back cover. This was recently supplied to Humberside FRS. There is also an article inside with further photos. The ALP part has a working height of 27m. Appliance is also fitted with CAFS for hosereels and the ALP monitor. Crew accomodation for 6 in the cab. This appliance will be stationed at Grimsby. South Yorkshire FRS are to have 4 of these appliances as well.

There is reference to Strathclyde's Aerial Rescue Pumps as well; although these are not described as CARPs from the general description it would seem that they are. It says that the procurement of these "will allow a reduction and redeployment in the required crew posts as well as a reduction in maintenance costs."
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Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 08:40:28 PM »
Rich what is the reach of theses appliances? They sound similar to the pump hydraulic platforms we used in the 1970's they only had a reach of about 16m.
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All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Rich

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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2008, 10:57:44 AM »
The reach, we are told will match out current TL capacity of 30 meters.  CAFS has been talked as I suspect the water tank capacity will be reduced because of the hydraulic gubbins that the TL part will need!
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Offline mark

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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 02:19:24 PM »
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Offline John Webb

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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 07:30:00 PM »
The article in 'Fire Cover' for Humberside's appliance quotes 1000 litre of water and 200 litre of foam concentrate.
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John Webb
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Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2008, 04:09:10 PM »
It looks like it is an import from Yankee land.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quint_%28fire_apparatus%29
Look at this Yankee fire forum it appears to be a major discussion point.  http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=75785
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All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Rich

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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 08:40:28 PM »
My concern with these vehicles are if we were to have an incident out of the city in which it operates normally we are depleting fire cover in that area while it is gone.  Now some may say - get the retained in to cover, but I don't think that is the answer.  Also if we are rid of our current TL's and the CARP goes OTR for service/repair etc we will have no aerial capability apart from to call the other CARP stationed 40 miles away which depletes its own area of fire and aerial cover.

I really am trying to see the positives with these machines but I suspect they have been purchased without doing enough background research!
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I am sorry if I offend anybody although if gold medals were dished out for it I would have quite a few!!

Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 11:26:17 PM »
I can understand your concerns Rich it appears the concept is about reducing manning than operational efficiency. How many drivers out there would fancy jockeying this 12m beast around the back streets of our towns? Merseyside is going for a number of smaller pumps (7.5 tonne) which most probably makes more sense.
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All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Sandy1

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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2008, 12:20:54 PM »
You need to speak to Grampian FRS who used to run this at Elgin. I understand the crews called it a 'white elephant'.  Don't know much about it but know it was not well liked.
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Offline wee brian

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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2008, 01:33:14 PM »
May be worth talking to planning and building control.

Access routes designed for pumps may be a tad tight for this big beastie.
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Offline John Webb

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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2008, 07:33:36 PM »
I understand it is frequent practice in many F&RS to send a pump with an aerial appliance to give the aerial supporting manpower for water supply etc. Is the CARP an attempt to integrate the two appliances so that only one machine and one crew is needed? Or are there other factors at work here?
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John Webb
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Offline toidi

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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2008, 08:53:43 PM »
A.R.Ps have been used in Strathclyde for about a year now. i am sure one rolled about 6 months ago and some of the station crews don't like them because of the stability issue. Anyone still in the job in Strathclyde like to comment?
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Offline AllyMacG

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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2008, 10:48:23 PM »
Not in the job, yet, RE: Strathclyde ARPs, Hamilton's ARP toppled on a mini roundabout, while responding to a 999 call, believe some if not all the crew were off for at least six months, from what I've heard alot of the drivers have raised concerns as to there safety, dont think these machines are the way forward but are becoming more common especially if sweeny has his way! Dare say they could be useful in some places but not in our big cities, as a former bus driver i know how difficult it can be be trying to drive a 12M vehicle around our builtup areas, and thats while not trying to respond to an emergency call. BTW what happened with ELgin's ARP?
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Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2008, 11:19:39 PM »
You may find this interesting? http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number3188.asp and read the comments below the photo.
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All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.
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