6 bed guest house requirements

[justd0g]

hi all. this is my first post.     i am a self employed electrician who is rewiring a two storey 6 bed guest house and tea room. the customer has asked me to install an fire alarm system for them .  am i allowed to install a fire alarm system for them as i have never installed one before but i feel like i could do this quite easly if i am allowed to. i have looked at different systems but cannot see what is required to be installed . i was looking to put a 4 zone 2wire system in with combined smoke alarm/sounder in all of the bedrooms,SA/S at the top and bottom of the stairs, SA/S in resteraunt ,heat detector in kitchen and call points at top and bottom of stairs and at the rear of the property where there is some stairs to the emergency exit. is this enough for a property of this size . i would be gratefull for any advice on this please.    thank you.

[John Dragon]

I spend quite a lot of my time repairing systems installed by electricians who think "fire is a doddle".
Usual mistakes are -
Poorly designed systems - missing detectors/sounders; using the "cheapest kit the wholesaler stocks", insufficient stand by time; using wrong cable; using non-addressable when addressable is necessary; insufficient or non-existent certification; installer cannot prove competence to design system; not knowing the classification of the system; not knowing the difference between a smoke alarm and a detector!; siting of smoke detectors (e.g. right next to an en-suite or a kitchen),

in short, it may not be a "quite easy" job!

Control panel - some are a pig to use, the better ones are dead easy.

Another problem is that (some) electricians install cr*ppy systems and fail to return to sort them out or carry out regular maintenance.

[AnthonyB]

Question - are you competent in the design & installation of fire alarm systems (as oppose to general electrical work) with verifiable qualifications in the subject that you would be happy to stand up in court with?

If you are you can do it - if not don't, but consider learning about the subject (& emergency lighting) so you have another service you can sell to customers

[Steve Parkins]

On the topic of electricians doing fire alarm installations I think they are well equiped for the job. As an electronics engineer and electrician I have come across many poorly installed systems during regular electrical periodics on buildings. Take the subject seriously and take on board all the information availbale and with the help of your local fire authority you will be fine. let's not forget we are not fire officers but remember they are not installers also, maybe if we all meet in the middle customers will get a great service.

Steve

[Steve Parkins]

Just one more point regarding fire alarm installation. The sooner they bring in recognised standards and regulation regarding companies who install there will always be cowboys just like domestic electrical work until part p came in.

Steve

[Les Potter(elementalfire)]

Maybe contacting a reputable alarm company with the proposal of instructing them to design the appropriate system for you and commissioning the works after you have run the wiring etc could be worth consideration.

i recall a number of years ago an electrician doing just that and he used Minerva at the time. there are many companies that will do the same i am sure.

in that way your qualifications are used for the wiring and the alarm companies expertise for their part, in the design and commissioning, and you get the needed certification at the end of the work.

[Wiz]

There are many different viewpoints on who is / should be capable of installing fire alarm systems.
Such viewpoints are often based on that which is most financially beneficial to the person stating a particular view. People already in an industry are often desperate to make it difficult for 'newcomers' to jump on the 'gravy train'
In the 'good old days' when 'fire alarm engineers' were difficult to find, I found it easier to employ an electrician and train him to become a fire alarm engineer than, say, employing an intruder alarm engineer to train as a fire alarm engineer. The electricians invariably had better skills at installing the sort of cables and equipment used in fire alarms than other trades were.
These days there is also the 'problem' of the mains supplies to equipment - a proper electrician is qualified to install these.
I appreciate that a proper fire alarm engineer needs much more than good installation skills, in fact, I found that my company needed  both employees who could install and others that could design, commission and fault-find. Very few were sufficiently good at all aspects.
Therefore my opinion is that 'justd0g', if he is a qualified electrician. is more than 50% suitably qualified and experienced to install fire alarm systems and if he takes the good advice given by previous posts regarding getting design, advice and commissioning by someone suitably experienced, then he should end up with a job that is as good (if not better!) than those provided by some so-called 'specialists' and possibly learn enough to take the first step in becoming acceptably profficient as a 'proper' fire alarm engineer.
It is my opinion that the current level of regulation provided by the need to meet British Standard recommendations of system design, installation and commissioning is sufficient. We are already allowing the creation of too many regulatory bodies (with all the paperwork and other costs they incur).
Surely, we can find enough work for ourselves if we are good at what we do, instead of trying to keep all of the cake for a select few by making laws to stop others getting a chance to taste it. There is a viewpoint that fair competition is the best regulation of price and standards - not hiding behind unnecessary legislation!