Compartment Fire Training

[Rich]

Just wondering how many brigades out there initiate compartment fire training for their ff's and if so how often.  My brigade currently still has no facility to provide this training and personnel who have done it have done so externally with another brigade.  

As an operational ff I would have thought that it should be more regular than 6 years ago*

*Thats the last time apart from a new recruit anyone on the watch received any practical compartment fire training!

[mark]

Rich,

In Oxfordshire we currently go to chiltern fire to carry out our compartment training, which if my memory serves me correctly is every three years but it is possible that this may be changed to every year.

I am not to sure how often the WT go but we had our initial hot box/attack box training just over a year ago and it would be no surprise to me if me did not visit again for some time.

Mark

[Chunty]

I am RDS in a brigade that has no facility of its own but does send personnel over the border to our neighbours who do, most of the guys have experienced a gap of five years at least between attending. Personally I have never been FBT'd by my brigade but in my full-time position in airport fire/rescue I am an FBTI having done the instructors course in Devon with other candidates from whole-time local authority training staff.

Perhaps in this respect the brigade feel that they do not need to send me on the FBT as I regularly do it in my primary job, but it's never been stated and I would be quite annoyed if that was the case as up to now the local authority brigade I work for have totally refused to recognise any of my aviation awards.

What the brigade's policy on regularity of FBT is I have no idea and don't particularly care, at the airport we do the full course (demo's/attack's) including incident scenarios involving FBT conditions at least once a year for all.

[Rich]

What the brigade's policy on regularity of FBT is I have no idea and don't particularly care, at the airport we do the full course (demo's/attack's) including incident scenarios involving FBT conditions at least once a year for all.

Chunty you should care about your colleagues in your LA brigade because with respect they are more likely to need it than you in your full time role.  I'm sure you have imparted information you have to your RDS colleagues, but my point is that all firefighters in all brigades are probably not getting enough hot fire training.

[Chunty]

Okay fair call Rich but believe me I am not implying I don't care about my buddies, perhaps what I wrote was a bit flippant but what I was implying is that I don't care much for brigade policy on FBT any more than I do for their policies on anything else.

The point was brought home on Friday night just gone, I went in to a well developed ground floor fire with a Crew Manager who was team leader (I handed my rank in eighteen months ago and reverted to firefighter). With the OK from the IC both of us took a branch, he the Akron me the TFT, and there was a marked difference between our techniques, at one point he was stood in the flaming gas layer directing a straight jet at floor level fire. That doesn't make me a smart arse, it means as you say Rich, this guy isn't getting enough instruction or practice.

The issue between Akron or TFT for FBT might be worth a thread actually, I think I'll start one.

Fair point though Rich; I'll think about how my words could be misunderstood in the future.

[Midland Retty]

The Brigade Im with only seems to give live fire training at the basic recruits course stage, or whenever there are major changes in extinguishing techniques.

Short and long pulsing, painting techniques are supposed to be practised on station, but clearly they are no substitute for pukka or realistic live fire training scenarios

Alot of the more experienced hands on in the service i speak to all say that they wish recruits got more realistic live fire training these days. We've all probably experienced the big cloud of steam which engulfs you if you incorrectly apply to much water into a compartment.

Some of you in the olden days may even had exposed parts of our wrists burnt as a rookie during training (cos of not putting on PPE correctly etc) - and it doesn't half get the message across about the need to be on the ball when dealing with these types of fires.

And this highlights what Chunty was saying about his colleague sticking his head into the flaming gas layer, and what could happen.

Some instructors say live fire training has been toned down for safety reasons and as a result it is no longer realistic leading to some trainees / refresher training candidates to become a bit to complacent about the dangers they could face in the real world.

[Pete]

Jeez guys,
I think I'll stop moaning!!
I'm RDS and go to the 'unit' FOUR times a year, and personally I think it should be monthly.
In D&GFRS all ranks have to carry out hot fire compartment training, possibly apart from the Boss, so it's not just the F/Fs that get hot and dirty.
I know there's plenty of guys and gals here that complain that we're not at the 'unit' often enough, most go twice a year, but I cover 2 stations hence my four visits.
Service policy is that if you don't attend the 'unit' at least once in a 12 month period, you are off the run, regardless of how many fires etc. you've been to. Seems harsh but at least the Instructors can make sure you're doing everything right at least a couple of times a year!
I realise some people may say "We go to loads of compartment fires so we don't need any additional hot training", however what is to say that they are using Best Practice. You need the training to keep up the skills to carry out the job effectively and safely.
And as we all know, Safety Counts!