IPDS Retained/Wholetime

[dave bev]

i assume you mean cross mapping as opposed to 'x mapping'?

if you can demonstrate or probably in your case provide evidence that your functional tasks that you perform meet the requirements of the role map for the post you are applying for and also meet the required 'pqa's' it seems there should be few obstacles against being considered as suitable for whole time employment.

dave bev

[Frankie]

One main reason R/T are not taken on as W/T is because of the problem of recruiting another R/T person for that station. Of course Brigades will not admit this

Every retained ff that i know that has got into WT has stayed in their retained job aswell. Being WT means they can give 6 days out of 8 day cover, which is better than the majority being only ably to give weekends and nights.
Being WT means you are able to give good cover to the retained.

6 Days out of 8? I think you've forgotten the fact that WT staff in some brigades are required to have 8 hours before and 8 hours after a shift off.

Interesting theory but wrong.

[scott]

One main reason R/T are not taken on as W/T is because of the problem of recruiting another R/T person for that station. Of course Brigades will not admit this

Every retained ff that i know that has got into WT has stayed in their retained job aswell. Being WT means they can give 6 days out of 8 day cover, which is better than the majority being only ably to give weekends and nights.
Being WT means you are able to give good cover to the retained.

6 Days out of 8? I think you've forgotten the fact that WT staff in some brigades are required to have 8 hours before and 8 hours after a shift off.

Interesting theory but wrong.

Every r/t that i know that has got into w/t is in my brigade.
I havent forgotten the fact that WT staff in some brigades are required to have 8 hours before and 8 hours after a shift off, because  it is not happeninging in my brigade.
It is fact, not theory and therefore not wrong.

[Frankie]

Every retained ff that i know that has got into WT has stayed in their retained job aswell. Being WT means they can give 6 days out of 8 day cover, which is better than the majority being only ably to give weekends and nights.
Being WT means you are able to give good cover to the retained.

6 Days out of 8? I think you've forgotten the fact that WT staff in some brigades are required to have 8 hours before and 8 hours after a shift off.

Interesting theory but wrong.

Every r/t that i know that has got into w/t is in my brigade.
I havent forgotten the fact that WT staff in some brigades are required to have 8 hours before and 8 hours after a shift off, because  it is not happeninging in my brigade.
It is fact, not theory and therefore not wrong.

And they give you 6 full days cover? and what about evenings? 6 full nights? do they all work the same watch?

We have a couple of WT RT and they don't give 6 days cover 8 hours or no 8 hours.... some people need time off

[scott]

And they give you 6 full days cover?

Some do

and what about evenings? 6 full nights?

Some do

do they all work the same watch?

No, whats the relevance?

We have a couple of WT RT and they don't give 6 days cover 8 hours or no 8 hours.... some people need time off

We also have some who do the same.

[HW]

In my experience WT who are RT are not permitted to give RT cover during the period when they are on shift, also they are not permitted to cover 8 hours before the first day shift and not for 8 hours after the last night shift...

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Lets face it all of this IPDS, IRMP, role mapping and any other rubbish the fire service comes out with in the future will be just as much of a waste of time!

IPDS - Supposed to be a nationaly recognised training standard? Rubbish, not in my experience. I tried to transfer from brigade to brigade and was told that my IPDS qualifications were not recognised, twice!

IRMP - A way of closing fire stations, reducing cover and moth-balling specials such as TLs & HPs and bringing in white elephants such as new dimension.

Role mapping? What the hell is it all about? I've been trying for ages to work it out and it just seems like a pointless paper exercise to me! Thought up by some civil servant or pen pusher with a degree in gibberish!

I was wholetime/retained for many years and recently packed it in, not because of the job but because of the endless penny pinching and double standards between WT & Ret. Lets face facts brigades take retained personnel for granted and have done for years. It's a well known fact that brigades don't like recruiting retained firefighters into wholetime positions. So I can't see how they will now just let retained personnel walk into WT posts, its not going to happen. In my opinion though, it should.

[dave bev]

pete p - you forgot to mention how little this is costing for of all this and the enormous benefits it will bring over the previous 'processes'

dave bev

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Sorry Dave Im yet to see any benefit as yet, Im still lost. For example: I dont agree with the notion that a Ff could apply for a StnO job so long as he or she could prove competency? How could you have faith and respect for someone in such a position?

But back to the issue in hand, I think that brigades should practice what they preach. If a retained man or woman can be passed as a qualified retained Ff, then he or she should be good enough in the WT.

[scott]

But back to the issue in hand, I think that brigades should practice what they preach. If a retained man or woman can be passed as a qualified retained Ff, then he or she should be good enough in the WT.

I agree but only if the standards for recruitment are the same.

[dave bev]

pete p, humour!

dave bev

[Tom]

Can anyone please help clear the mist from eyes and ears over IPDS / Retained?

 I was one of the last batch to take the old style, brigade orientated LF exams before the start of IPDS. My brigade virtually copied the WT format for retained and all I had left to do was the drill section and all finished.

 However I just missed the date and was told that I would be transferred onto the new system to complete. All my exam passes would be credited against role maps etc. Speaking to the IPDS Hub and my own training centre it soon became obvious that the retained aspect had not really been formulated. I got passed from person to person. Each giving a different viewpoint. But nothing solid. Mentioned by the Hub was assessment centres and intirim interviews. But the brigade training centre just did not know.

 Earlier on this year a senior officer gave a briefing about what was going to happen and that an assessment centre was going to happen mid year and interviews held. But it was also mentioned that the private contractors brought in to set up the process had not managed to complete and another contractor was taking over.

 It is now November and still no news! People are still retiring and leaving but there are nobody to replace them. Also to make things more interesting is that firefighters who had completed most of the old style exams were allowed to take a pump out. I have done this for some time. Lack of manpower dictates this. But now an edict has been issued that that must now stop under health and safety. I believed that under the IPDS system taking a pump out occassionally was part of the gaining command experience role.

 Can anyone enlighten me on what the situation actually is?

Tom

[dave bev]

tom check out via the odpm web site the consultation paper re progression of operational and control staff -

anyone can make comment or reply to a consultation, and it is important that individuals reply - especially if they have definite issues that might not be picked up by anyone else - the fbu is in the process of co-ordinating a response - not sure who else is other than cfoa

dave bev