B.A. Whistle time

[fireftrm]

BM999

I agree, around 80 bar would suggest a good level of safety built in, and as I said apply risk assessment. The example you gave  of the use of common sense is just that - after all RA is actually common sense. The over riding principles should be:

You should ensure that you return to fresh air so that your safety margin is untouched
You should utilise the air to the maximum benefit - using your DRA to determine the turnaround time.

The 'use half the air available' is only a guide. There is no normal job, though, so this is merely a recommendation on which to base your DRA and decisions that fall from it.

[burgermuncher999]

Firetrm.
The only point i would add is that it can be all too easy for trainers to cover their arse by disregarding their practical experience upon entering training dept. What then occurs is that some can inadvertently regard the 'book' as the bible forgetting that the book was in fact derived from the lessons learnt in the real world. Where fairly inexperienced individuals are promoted into training as some form of development process what you can end up with is a situation where some rely on what is contained within 'the book' as opposed to having  a degree of actual workplace experience with which to balance the theory against practice. All i can say Firetrm is fight the good fight and continue to balance what you are given by the training dept against what you know to be real on the fireground.
Keep it real - keep it safe.

[gggggggggg]

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[burgermuncher999]

Absolutely.

[Kingy]

The time of whistle is totally irrelevant to the BA wearer. He/She has no idea of time during an incident.
Good wear planning is essential, ie; regular guage checks and following all recognised procedures.
If going in to a "normal" 3 bed semi with 200/190 bar then you can safely say that the likely hood of them staying in that building for their whole working duration is very unlikely.(unless its going like a train!)
If however the building is bigger and more complex then wear planning becomes an even greater necessity.
Before door openings guage check, change of levels guage check, finding casualties guage check.
All personel should in training excersises be practising honing this skill of wear planning.
Also in an earlier thread the ECO was mentioned perhaps being "the new boy", personally the responsibilties for an ECO can be more important than the BA teams. We should try and get away from this thought process that the job of Entry Control is a menial task at an incident.

[Chunty]

If this is todays' subject then I have come in at the right time. I am a BAI and I've just got home after running a BA guideline drill.

I totally agree with the over-riding comment above that those that have gone before and tragically in some cases lost their lives, have been significant contributors to the procedures and equipment we use today and we shouldn't forget that or allow ourselves as individuals, regardless of the policies of the organisations we work for, forget that solemn fact.

With regard to turn round times; at today's exercise this issue was raised by the two members of the third team to enter. They were engaged in a methodical search using 6m personal line working off a pre-laid main guideline. Due to the complex layout of the smoke-logged structure being used it was a painfully slow process and by the time they had covered just twenty metres longitudally off the guideline the number two in the team was concerned that his cylinder contents were at the level when he would normally be expecting to turn around and head out. He was within 10 bar of the team leaders contents who took the decision to continue with the search pattern much to the disgruntlement of his number two.

During debrief the issue was raised again and I could only praise the team leader for considering that yes, you might normally consider turning around at the point the number two indicated but the pragmatics of the task they were engaged in meant that turning around, traversing the guideline back twenty metres to the EP would barely use a third of the air consumed during the methodical progress in to the structure.

However they were out before TOW and I wouldn't have been impressed with the ECO or the team leader if they weren't. As stated before the problem with TOW is that the BA team can't measure this and if they don't have telemetry or reliable radio comms (so far in this job I've never experienced consistently reliable radio comms?) there's no way of knowing or being advised by the ECO. In this case there's only one call the ECO can make if playing by the rules; rules born from the loss of firefighters past.