Retained Firefighters And Blue Lights??

[adamparker]

ok Blue Lights And Retained Fire Fighters a yes and a no

my station commander: no

blue light trainers are happy to put you through a course also needing advanced training aswell so yes

you dont have to have training - as told by a Blue light trainer
but...
if you have an accident while on blues the health and safty law are more likley to prosicute than a normal law for causing a RTC

i hope ive explained myself but i have answered my own question

[Chris Houston]

if you have an accident while on blues the health and safty law are more likley to prosicute than a normal law for causing a RTC

What does this mean?

[AnthonyB]

It means nothing as it's nonsense.

Health & Safety Legislation doesn't apply - the guidance specifically states that the HSE and H&S legislation deliberately steers clear of areas already covered by the Road Traffic Act to avoid duplicity - with certain types of road incident although on paper H&S law would apply instead the RT Act takes primacy.

If you have an accident on blue lights and exemptions, the police will collate evidence and if appropriate the Crown Prosecution Service will take the matter to the criminal court under the relevant section of the RT Act, which if the exemptions are legitimately claimed will be usually driving without due care or dangerous driving - if the exemptions are not fairly claimed then the appropriate speed or red light etc offences will be included

Training is not required under road traffic legislation for blue light use (except for speed limit exemption) & so would not normally feature in a non speed related criminal case, but would be very relevant in the civil compensation case that would invariably follow an incident.

[adamparker]

im only saying what i have been told please tell me i am allowed (which i no i am without training) to use blue lights being emergency personnel but i am stuck

my command officer says no : you have to travel at normal speed and saftley get to the station

LIVES: a volunteer response group in lincolnshire (First Aid & Paramedics) say there volunteers dont use them but can they if they buy or supply there ownlights

[Chris Houston]

"im only saying what i have been told [sic]", perhaps so, but it doesn't make it right.  And I concur with AnthonyB, what you said doesn't even make sence.

"my commend officer says no", perhaps you should listen to your boss..........

[adamparker]

thankyou

personally (im not trying to cause an arguement) but how my station commanderand fire and rescue want you to respond as normal under normal driving circumstances is obviously for a reason ie. money to train people or it hasnt come to a stage where they are short on fire fighters at a station

[Chris Houston]

He or she obviously has a reason, but perhaps that reasons is actually based on protecting employees and the public from injury and compliance with policy and the law.

[TheCapt]

Adam
Leaving the legal side alone.
For what its worth is my opinion.
Having personally seen the vast majority of a stations retained staff drive like lunatics,a driving course should be standard.EFAD serves its purpose with supervision(on appliances)
Unfortunately some numpty tearing through a village, past a school / shops etc like a demon is crazy. I'm sure most operation staff have witnessed a car skidding past the watchroom window for a semi-clad ret FF to leap out and shout "what have we got" Then to watch them proceed to a wheelie bin on fire. Well worth them doing 70 through a 30 zone. After once having to deal with a rather irrate Traffic Officer, who wanted to "Have a word" with a budding Lewis Hamilton the issue was pasted to higher management..The response....lets hide our heads in the sand. Obviously the cost implications are high but some form of advanced vehicle driver training is a must.
I personally believe if the above staff (who strut around in their uniform 2 days after drill night )could remove the numerous "Firefighter on Call" window stickers(One has 3 plus a grill badge) they may be able to see that they are more of a risk /hazard than the shout they are responding/wheel-spinning/swerving/speeding/driving to. To give staff blue lights etc would I fear, them being abused thus reducing the effect.

[adamparker]

TheCapt that is a very reasnable side tothe story i have a window sticker not because i wanted it but were i work i get blocked in and it does help i have been talking to a Retained firefighter in devon over the internet and he uses a window sticker a grill badge and a dash light NOT blue but amber and white seeing anyone is in right to use amber lights for a warning purpose is this a better tacktic than blues?

i know you still get your wanna b F1 drivers but..

[AnthonyB]

I could post the correct legislation on the use of amber warning lights and flashing white lights, but I fear no one would listen.....

What is a fact is that the law is in a mess, complicated further by widespread questionable usage - and if you think the situation is bad with blue lights it's worse still with amber

[TheCapt]

I agree there is a place for stickers as per your use.
 However, self-appointed warning devices (amber / white lights) will serve to cause confusion to Joe Public. The FF you mentioned may be viewed as a council worker or maintenance operative for example. Would you seriously move out of the way for a budding rally driver with an array of lights? Nope. Likewise if the FF crashed into / injuring / killing your family etc would you view his lights as way of acceptance / competence / driving ability? I think not. Neither would any solicitors or insurance company.
 It begs the question that why in this day and age if a FF was unsuccessful in training (safety critical) they would need a review, further training etc etc for numerous HSE reasons, yet they have no responsible safe means of responding?(Other than obeying the law)
I would suggest unless you want endless court visits you listen to your Manager / Fire Service.

Take care and drive to arrive……lol

Also where are the lights going to go on a push bike?

[Benfire]

if u want lights on your bike, maybe try and contact this spotter!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk7GD2vqj6o

[TheCapt]

Benfire...lol  I like it .Don't give them too many ideas, before you know it they'll all want one. Lets hope not many FS Managers see it, I would expect our staff cars to get replaced pronto.