Public House

[PhilB]

Just done a risk assessment on a premise.

I think you'll find it was a premises Colonel not a premise.....I really must get out more!

[nearlythere]

Just done a risk assessment on a premise.

I think you'll find it was a premises Colonel not a premise.....I really must get out more!

Does that mean that Premises is or are?
Bit of a loose end today I am.

[redbadge]

on the premise that it is premises are would be nice

[The Colonel]

Phill, dont go out yet, wait till sunday when the wind and rain will give your anorak a good test. Have fun

[jokar]

I think you wil find that a prohibition notice can only be served for the escape parts, without quoting in full Article 31.  Those other bits perhaps need doing but should not be part of a prohibition notice.  The rest may need doing but is just enforcement stuff.

[PhilB]

I think you wil find that a prohibition notice can only be served for the escape parts, without quoting in full Article 31.  Those other bits perhaps need doing but should not be part of a prohibition notice.  The rest may need doing but is just enforcement stuff.

Ok anorak on...I'll quote the article for you...

31. —(1) If the enforcing authority is of the opinion that use of premises involves or will involve a risk to relevant persons so serious that use of the premises ought to be prohibited or restricted, the authority may serve on the responsible person or any other person mentioned in article 5(3) a notice (in this Order referred to as "a prohibition notice").

    (2) The matters relevant to the assessment by the enforcing authority, for the purposes of paragraph (1), of the risk to relevant persons include anything affecting their escape from the premises in the event of fire.

If relevant persons are not given sufficient early warning this may affect their ability to escpape..so a prohibition notice could be served, unlikely that lack of AFD would be that serious but if it was it's definately ok to prohibit or restrict if necessary.

Quite correct that you would remedy the failures with an enforcement notice but you could also prohibit or restrict the use if the risk was so serious.

[The Colonel]

The FA did subsequently issue what they called a schedule of works covering the above items an example of of one item is;

The structural fire protection, inluding doors, to escape routes from sleeping accomodation on both upper floors may not provide sufficent protection to the escape routes to allow people to escape safeley in the event of fire.
Action required. The protection of internal and external escape routes should be assessed for adequacy as part of the review of your fire risk assessment and relevant parts of the structure must be upgraded where necessary.

The FA end the schedule with this sentance,
An alternative approach to remedying the above deficiencies, which complies with the requirements of the order, will be acceptable to the fire authority.

[jasper]

going back to this old topic, my friend is about to be inspected by the fire service in Thursday this week and has done nothing (not even taken up the offer of a free fra)

[Davo]

perhaps the Colonel meant he was on a promise.............

personally I would settle for readdies but I haven't seen the owner

davo

[Rex]

A building design of a three storey town house already at foundation stage, has a single staircase that dischages into a lounge at first floor level, and into a kitchen/dining room at ground floor, short run of stairs leads to main entrance door. Three plots of the same design, the architects cannot [or will not] change their design, and and the local BCO will not accept the design B1 means of escape, unless the stairs provide a protected route, or the installation of a domestic sprinkler system as a compensatory feature along with a fire risk assessment
 detailing how they are proposing to compensate for the open plan arrangement. My question has anyone completed a successful fire strategy risk assessment in similar circumstances to a BCO, if so any chance of a copy, I have seen many reports regarding Requirement BI Determination of BR 200 in similar circumstances that have unfortunately failed. Any comments would be appreciated.

[kurnal]

No - but I would observe that whereas many designs of this type may be approved - with sprinklers or with fire separation at first floor level and a choice of alternative window exits- often they are rejected and reading through the determinations it appears that success or failure depends more on the attitude of the individual Building Inspector rather than the quality of any fire strategy.

If it gets to determination then its 100-1 that it will fail.

[Rex]

Kurnal
thanks for your comments, yes, my thoughts as well,  my initial advice was  to provide a protected route.

[nearlythere]

A building design of a three storey town house already at foundation stage, has a single staircase that dischages into a lounge at first floor level, and into a kitchen/dining room at ground floor, short run of stairs leads to main entrance door. Three plots of the same design, the architects cannot [or will not] change their design, and and the local BCO will not accept the design B1 means of escape, unless the stairs provide a protected route, or the installation of a domestic sprinkler system as a compensatory feature along with a fire risk assessment
 detailing how they are proposing to compensate for the open plan arrangement. My question has anyone completed a successful fire strategy risk assessment in similar circumstances to a BCO, if so any chance of a copy, I have seen many reports regarding Requirement BI Determination of BR 200 in similar circumstances that have unfortunately failed. Any comments would be appreciated.

Tried to search out a very recent post on a determination in respect of an inner bedroom (I think) which went in favour of BC (if I remember rightly). Somebody will be able to pinpoint it.

[CivvyFSO]

There are many determinations more specific to the case in question. Generally people wanting to convert attic space to bedrooms in back to backs where the stair discharges into the living room. SoS invariably backs the BC body.

The one you refer to is possibly the one where the apartment/flat was also sprinklered, with a fire engineer arguing the case.

[CivvyFSO]

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/doc/451233.doc

There you are. (The inner-room bedrooms determination.)