Author Topic: Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination  (Read 4609 times)

Offline AM

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Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination
« on: March 18, 2008, 03:07:37 PM »
Can anyone help? What are the limits of Article 22 in relation to means of escape that pass through a neighbouring premises?

We are dealing with a premises that is undergoing a refurbishment, and to ensure that parts of the building can remain occupied, a temporary stair has been provided leading into a courtyard of an adjacent building. The person in charge was fine with this when the plan was drawn up and agreed to provide the means of escape, but has now gone cold now that the stair has been installed. I know this type of arrangement caused problems in the Fire cert days, but would the article apply in this case? Do the responsible persons 'share....premises' if there is an escape route passing through? I'm not sure that the FSO covers this.

Offline kurnal

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Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 03:15:57 PM »
I would say if you are a fire safety enforcement officer -  keep it simple. The RP of building A has a duty to provide adequate means of escape. If he chooses to do this by making an arrangement via building B then it must be a robust arangement. If that agreement later falls down its the RP of building A's sole responsibility.
Fire authorities will not normally fight other peoples legal battles on their behalf.

If you are a consultant then by all means try to persuade the Fire Authority to take it on - but I doubt you will succeed. More likely to lead to an enforcement notice for your client. In my opinion of course.

Offline PhilB

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Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 05:04:44 PM »
I dealt with a similar case where means of escape from premises A was across the carpark of premises B. The owner of premises B didn't want that arrangement and erected a steel barrier directly outside the fire exit from premises A.

So who committed an offence???

I donned jackboots and headed for owner of A....but on further investigation it transpired that owner A had won a Court Order prohibting tresspass...several years earlier. He had done all he good to prevent the tresspass but occupier B ignored him.

Finally owner B gave plenty of written notice of his intention to block up the exit.

So RP of premises A should have told his employees but didn't, so he was the one at fault....in my opinion of course.

messy

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Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 09:20:01 PM »
I have dealt with numerous similar problems with shared roof escapes and similar, especially when occupier 'B' vacates the property. As Kurnal says, it almost always ends up with enforcement against RP 'A'.

(It's never the most satisfying days work when you have to issue an enforcement notice on somebody who has innocently asked us for advice!)

Offline AnthonyB

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Article 22: Co operation and Co-ordination
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 11:32:58 PM »
Although you could insist on co-operation & coordination so that the two parties at least talk & exchange significant findings, but then there are non fire related issues with it's own law - land law, lease law, etc.

Where ever a route enters another premises, easements and means of escape licenses crop up as an issue - without one you cannot use that route and certainly previous fire legislation could not override this.

Where an easement is not granted in cases we have dealt with this has led in some situations to the stark choices of either spending huge sums on creating a new alternative route on land you have access rights on, or where there is no money or available land to do this change or reduce occupancy or in one extreme case an area became unlettable and rendered obsolete. One shop unit redevelopment was ruined as it's protected exits & stair were in the neighbouring unit and their only stair fully within their unit was a fully open unprotected stair over 4 floors, but they hadn't investigated easments during the refurb and their protected exits had been sealed by the neighbouring shop.

There is no easy answer as adjoining premises exits exist precisely because there is nowhere else to place them within each individual building.

The easy option that most places follow is to ignore the issue and assume with fingers crossed that when the time comes the route will be usable and not have been bricked over on the other side/had a cabinet in front of it/be in darkness and locked up.

I dread London jobs as this is most common here, although a particular street in Liverpool and various places around the country have this issue
Anthony Buck
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