Author Topic: Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?  (Read 31497 times)

Clevelandfire

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2008, 06:24:54 PM »
Oh sorry I misunderstood your previous posts i think.

How old is the property in question then?

Offline wormhole

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2008, 06:35:59 PM »
Quote from: Clevelandfire
You have commited a fatal error there and will have to shut down

Earth would be provided by the utility company as it acts as earth back to the main grid.

A localised grounding point would be provided by the house builder or electrical contractor which would disipate the electricity in the event of leakage within the property
Hi Cleveland,
Sorry for the delay responding - busy weekend!

There is no legal or otherwise requirement for the utility company to provide an earth point for an installation - this is the responsibility of the consumer. More often than not the earthing forms a TN-C/TN-C-S  type arrangement where at some point the earth and neutral connection are combined (the C stands for combined)

However depending on the local supply network they can also provide TT earthing arrangements where the neutral and earth are not combined, in these cases the consumer must provide their own earth (normally via a rod, rods or earth mat) - in these cases the earth MUST NOT be connected to neutral. On new TT installation (or most modifications) the supply must be protected by a RCD to reduce risk of fire amonst other reasons.

On a TT system there is no link between the supply authorities earth and the consumers earth.

Quote from: Clevelandfire
you shouldnt get any surges or problems from the incoming supply

The isolators on the pole should kick in, and as a last ditch line of defence the consumer unit should stop any harful faults surely
There will be quite alot of surges and problems with the incoming supply, this is particularly bad where overhead lines are used - again its the consumers responsibility really, although the utility company has limits alot of surges and harmonics are cause by other consumers so very difficult to police.

The isolators on the pole are often just that, providing no protection, often just manual disconnection. protective devices at medium voltage are very expensive and its quite unusual to be installed on a pole.


I'm hoping for some emailed photo's off st185cs, then we can get back onto the subject at hand!


Kernal - Thanks :)

Clevelandfire

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 07:05:17 PM »
Quote from: wormhole
There is no legal or otherwise requirement for the utility company to provide an earth point for an installation - this is the responsibility of the consumer. More often than not the earthing forms a TN-C/TN-C-S  type arrangement where at some point the earth and neutral connection are combined (the C stands for combined)

However depending on the local supply network they can also provide TT earthing arrangements where the neutral and earth are not combined, in these cases the consumer must provide their own earth (normally via a rod, rods or earth mat) - in these cases the earth MUST NOT be connected to neutral. On new TT installation (or most modifications) the supply must be protected by a RCD to reduce risk of fire amonst other reasons.

On a TT system there is no link between the supply authorities earth and the consumers earth.
Yes that is what I was eluding to albeit in a very crude fashion.

Quote from: wormhole
There will be quite alot of surges and problems with the incoming supply, this is particularly bad where overhead lines are used - again its the consumers responsibility really, although the utility company has limits alot of surges and harmonics are cause by other consumers so very difficult to police.

The isolators on the pole are often just that, providing no protection, often just manual disconnection. protective devices at medium voltage are very expensive and its quite unusual to be installed on a pole.
Indeed but if there is a huge surge which could potential damage consumer units I understand there is equipment in place on certain poles to prevent this which is what I was on about. However having read Kurnals post again it seems he wasn't talking necessarily about power poles

Offline wormhole

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2008, 07:41:05 PM »
Quote from: Clevelandfire
Indeed but if there is a huge surge which could potential damage consumer units I understand there is equipment in place on certain poles to prevent this which is what I was on about. However having read Kurnals post again it seems he wasn't talking necessarily about power poles
the protective devices on the poles are relatively primitive, surge protection is expensive and not normally installed on poles, while the utility will have some surge protection its quite limited and mainly to protect their network.

Even the limited surge protection will not protect from lightning strikes, which cause alot of damage to electrical equipment, especially electronic equipment.

A simple example of this we are currently working on - 11kV on poles for several miles, no surge protection, into Network Operator switchgear, into private 11kV switch gear, run underground to transformer - output of transformer connected to a panel board with some surge protection built in - however this surge protection is quite basic (although it costs nearly £1,000) and is not required by any statutory documents.

As it is, we should hopefully not have any serious surges, however a lightning strike to any of the network in the area (which as its overhead is quite likely) could create a fault large enough to destroy the surge protection, and other equipment.

the main problem is this type of voltage distortion is more often than not, either caused by lightning or another consumer.

think of the domestic arrangement, I could cause a fault in my house, causing a power surge, this would likely affect and could damage all the houses on this phase electrically on the street, as we are all connected directly to the same cable.

It can become a real nightmare

Clevelandfire

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2008, 07:58:14 PM »
well im blown away there

i always thought there was more protection than that. You learn something new everyday and my training on electricity supplies I was given as an operational officer was obviously very incorrect.

Offline devon4ever

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Fire caused by an Electricity Company's cut-out/meter?
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2008, 03:23:28 AM »
Hence my post earlier on in this thread.......fire investigators have limitations too, seek advice where appropriate, we are not all electrical engineers
(The Stig is my next door neighbour!)