Sheltered Housing Schemes

[val]

As usual you seem to have it in for anybody who may make a profit - is everybody here a communist (not that that makes you a bad person)

Thanks for the compliment WB. :-)

Laissez-faire capitalists, (def.  People who support a laissez faire system are against minimum wages, duties, and any other trade restrictions), always struggle to see any link between profit and responsibility.

Whether these residents are 'in care' or not is a matter of semantics. The risk they face is comparable to a care home and yet we are asked to accept far lower protective measures. Give the Care Quality Commisssion some grief and ask them to assess them for registration.

[Clevelandfire]

Sheltered accom is better than a normal flat so we dont want to make these schemes unviable.

Wee Brian I expected more from you!

Flats and maisonettes should have 1 hr fire compartmentation, sheltered schemes dont.

Ordinarily not a problem, but where all residents are bed bound Im starting to think someone is taking the mickey a little bit personally. If they're bed bound and no one is available to assist them you would want atleast 60 minutes FR in my view.

I dont want to regulate the world, but firefighters wont be able to rescue that many residents who are bed bound. Thats my primary concern.

Exactly in many ways actually a block flats is better than sheltered schemes

[wee brian]

Sorry - I'm obviousely thinking of Sheltered schemes that comply with some form of standard - if you dont have any compartmentation and they don't evacuate - then they will all die when theres a fire - what are you guys all playing at??

[Clevelandfire]

Sorry - I'm obviousely thinking of Sheltered schemes that comply with some form of standard - if you dont have any compartmentation and they don't evacuate - then they will all die when theres a fire - what are you guys all playing at??

They have 30 minutes compartmentation!

[wee brian]

Where did that come from?

Is there yet another book I havent read?

[Clevelandfire]

Sleeping Accomodation guide, has always been the case for years. What did you think it was Wee Brian?

[PhilB]

Sleeping Accomodation guide, has always been the case for years. What did you think it was Wee Brian?

Which of these sheltered houses have been built in accordance with the CLG sleeping accomodation guide?? Am I missing something here?

[Clevelandfire]

they havent but im just saying thats what the current RRO guide says , and plus Building Regs asks for 30 mins FR

[wee brian]

Not in my building regs it doesnt - am I missing something here? Sheltered accome should be built to the same spec as flats -shouldnt it?

[Clevelandfire]

Sounds like Im being sarcastic and I promise but out of intrest  are you looking at a current copy of Building Regs?

[wee brian]

Yup ADB 2007 treats Sheltered accom like flats. OK it's 30 mins for low rise (5m tall).

That's the same as flats.  30 mins in anything taller would be crazy for flats let alone sheltered accom.

I'm not being sarcastic either (I know that makes a change) we seem to be talking at cross purposes and this is important. That's why this forum is so useful.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Folks

No you arent talking at cross purposes at all you are both saying the same thing

In fact we all are.

Bed bound residents need greater protection than 30 minutes FR to allow for a stay put policy. Thats why I've flagged this matter up in the first place.

[wee brian]

Just had a look at the sleeping accom guide.  It talks about 30 mins but not specifically for Sheltered accom.

That's the problem with this guide - it mixes hotels with flats without any real explanation of the difference.

I would adopt 60 mins compartmentation as in ADB (over 5m high). If it isnt 60 then they aint flats and they will need a simultaneous evac strategy - which won't work.

[Midland Retty]

Just had a look at the sleeping accom guide.  It talks about 30 mins but not specifically for Sheltered accom.

That's the problem with this guide - it mixes hotels with flats without any real explanation of the difference.

I would adopt 60 mins compartmentation as in ADB (over 5m high). If it isnt 60 then they aint flats and they will need a simultaneous evac strategy - which won't work.

You're absolutely spot on Wee Brian.

This is the dilema we had.

It just doesn't sit well with us that sheltered schemes only require 30 mins FR (if under 5m) (which is fine if the residents are all mobile)

But as the residents get older and their health deteriorates and they become less mobile it seems the sheltered organisations tell their residents to "stay put" - which you just cant have unless 60 mins FR is provided.

We have looked at the residential care guide. It states that it doesn't cover sheltered housing UNLESS care is provided with a ryder that states 'unless care is provided in a single domestic dwelling'.

[wee brian]

Now I see where you are coming from - most of the sheltered accom I've dealt with is over 5m (that's not very tall).

A block of flats (we're only talking 2 stories here <5m) with 30m would still be designed on a stay put strategy.  I expect the building regs assume that people can escape/be rescued from windows (bit olde worlde I suppose) so take a less stringent approach.

I'm still not sure how this should be dealt with under the RRO though. Strictly speaking the "flats" in sheltered accom are domestic premises.