Fixed hosereels in an office environment

[Tonyn]

I have recently reviewed our fire risk assessments at my place of work.

The main building is made up of old and new.  The building comprises offices and a few electronics labs, there are no large or open plan areas.  In the old part of the building I have 3 fixed hosereels, 1 on each floor.  The hoses can only be run out a maximum of 2m in all directions but one until you hit a fire door. The one direction they can be run out is a passageway with no openings other than the fire door at the far end (approx 10m).  At each hosereel location there are 3 x 9tlr water and 2 x 2kg CO2.

The companies fire policy is for staff to turn their backs on the fire and evacuate.  We have a number of Fire Marshals trained in the use of extinguishers but they are instructed only to tackle a fire if life is at risk.

At the last contractors inspection I was advised that the hoses are now due a hydraulic test at it was recommended that, due to the limitations given above, and the risk of inviting local hero's to outstay their welcome,  they be removed.

My boss believed that they would be required for the local fire brigade to use, but I doubt that any LFB would enter the building and use the items, they would rely on their own kit.

Would I be correct in removing them?

Regards
Tony

[Steven N]

With the information you have given I can see no reason not to remove them. The LAFB would not use them. Its nice to see somebody doing a risk asessment & actually acting on the findings.

[Galeon]

I  doubt very much if any Fireservice would want to use premises equipment , with exception of dry wet riser maybe. Common sense would dictate that as long as there is 'adequate' coverage to the risk with correct extinguishers under risk assessment you could remove them .

Unfortunately I am electrically biased , so don't hold your breath on my general comments

Perhaps someone could give you a more beneficial answer.

[Clevelandfire]

Yes Tony you would be correct. There are numerous problems associated with hose reels. The first is that when you run them out they prop open fire doors, plus because the water is continuous a punter using the hose to put a fire out will stand there til kingdom with water pouring out whilst the fire just gets bigger and cuts off his escape route. Its not like a fire extinguisher where the contents will run out prompting the person using it to think "oh thats run out I better get out"

Also Ive seen people run out the hose then realise they havent turned the tap / valve onto to supply water so have to go back turn it on and then retrace their steps back to the fire. This is all valuable time!

The Fire Brigade will prefer to use their own hose. yes Ive used fixed hoses in the past, but it isnt good practice because you never know if they are maintained and properly working correctly.

Take them out and replace them with a Co2 and Foam extinguisher per hose reel or any other fire extinguisher you feel appropriate according to your assessment.

Hope this helps.

[Galeon]

Hi Clevelandfire ,

Here's spooky for you , as I went to post the screen page went mad , it seems we both hit the site with a comment at the exact same time , would have got good odds at Ladbrokes for that.

[nearlythere]

I have recently reviewed our fire risk assessments at my place of work.

The main building is made up of old and new.  The building comprises offices and a few electronics labs, there are no large or open plan areas.  In the old part of the building I have 3 fixed hosereels, 1 on each floor.  The hoses can only be run out a maximum of 2m in all directions but one until you hit a fire door. The one direction they can be run out is a passageway with no openings other than the fire door at the far end (approx 10m).  At each hosereel location there are 3 x 9tlr water and 2 x 2kg CO2.

The companies fire policy is for staff to turn their backs on the fire and evacuate.  We have a number of Fire Marshals trained in the use of extinguishers but they are instructed only to tackle a fire if life is at risk.

At the last contractors inspection I was advised that the hoses are now due a hydraulic test at it was recommended that, due to the limitations given above, and the risk of inviting local hero's to outstay their welcome,  they be removed.

My boss believed that they would be required for the local fire brigade to use, but I doubt that any LFB would enter the building and use the items, they would rely on their own kit.

Would I be correct in removing them?

Regards
Tony

Hose reels are a thing of the past in this sort of environment. There is a H&S issue in that persons are encouraged to remain in the building to tackle a fire much longer than if fire extinguishers were used. That means additional training and so many owners/employers remove them.
Hose reels are not placed there specifically for Fire Service use. They have their own, as you say, which are more likely to work.
As long as you have sufficient portable extinguishers there would not be a problem ditching them.

[jokar]

Becareful, some hose reels were put into place because of local acts and you would need permission to remove them.  Having said that all the comments above are viable and to add to that you have a very small risk of stale water which could bring disease into a premises, unfounded of course but!  FRS staff fight fire in pairs with full PPE and BA, why would you wnat to train a staff member to use  a Hose Reel in a different way to professional staff.  Also, the Corporate manslaugter bill was due to become an Act in April this year, I haven't checked yet whether it is live, and the gross negligence is a mainstay ofthis bill.  Put someone at risk with a hosereel without proper training and a constant water supply and any accidents you may well be the first case.

[Chris Houston]

The companies fire policy is for staff to turn their backs on the fire and evacuate.  We have a number of Fire Marshals trained in the use of extinguishers but they are instructed only to tackle a fire if life is at risk.

So allow me to clarify, if there is a waste paper basket on fire, you will all walk away and allow it to grow and enfulf you entire office, destorying all your assets?

[messy]

Spot the post from the insurance man!!!!!!!!! (mind you, it's a fair point)

[kurnal]

I agree with the view that in an office environment portable extinguishers should be more than adequate for first aid firefighting.

The national Guidance has changed a little as a result of the RRO and there is greater  emphasis on the value of  using first aid fire fighting equipment to stop a small outbreak becoming a big fire without taking personal risk. The previous instruction Tonyn mentioned probably dated back to the old emphasis on protecting the means of escape implicit in the old FP Act.

I think that in some environments hosereels are still a good measure- thinking of places like secure schools and prisons where there is a greater than average liklihood of deliberate fires and where because of the security measures evacuation may take longer than most premises. In this case to continue applying an indefinate supply of water rather than the 30-50 seconds of a portable extinguisher may be a big benefit.

I dont feel intimidated by the Corporate manslaughter legslation in respect of fire fighting equipment- as I see it theres a huge gulf between gross negligence and  taking reasonable and proportionate measures. Provision of maintained equipment and training of even a few  individuals does not sound like gross negligence to me

[Clevelandfire]

The companies fire policy is for staff to turn their backs on the fire and evacuate.  We have a number of Fire Marshals trained in the use of extinguishers but they are instructed only to tackle a fire if life is at risk.

So allow me to clarify, if there is a waste paper basket on fire, you will all walk away and allow it to grow and enfulf you entire office, destorying all your assets?

No as we said above hosereels would be replaced with fire extinguishers

If you cant put it out with one fire extinguisher any good trainer will tell you thats the time you stop and evacuate.

[Chris Houston]

The companies fire policy is for staff to turn their backs on the fire and evacuate.  We have a number of Fire Marshals trained in the use of extinguishers but they are instructed only to tackle a fire if life is at risk.

So allow me to clarify, if there is a waste paper basket on fire, you will all walk away and allow it to grow and enfulf you entire office, destorying all your assets?

No as we said above hosereels would be replaced with fire extinguishers

If you cant put it out with one fire extinguisher any good trainer will tell you thats the time you stop and evacuate.

I agree whole-heatedly with that the trainer would say.  But you said earlier that your policy was to evacuate without tackling, now you said you would tackle it.  I'm confused.

[Clevelandfire]

I didnt say that

[Chris Houston]

oops, I thought you were Tonyn!  Sorry mate!

[AnthonyB]

I agree - out with the reels! Certain environments are still suited to reels, mainly industrial and open areas, but they are no longer the in thing for office type buildings.

The local buildings act caveat is worth researching, but even pre RRO I've come across central London High Rise Office blocks where written permission from the BCO to withdraw them despite s20 still applying.