Author Topic: Braille Escape Route Signs  (Read 21324 times)

Guest

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Braille Escape Route Signs
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2004, 01:47:50 PM »
Billy:

Your response to my post answers none of my concerns.  

I offer no opinion on the benefit of your non-fixed guiderope version to fire fighters.  I do, however, have severe difficulty with the concept of a fixed version having any useful function.

Whilst I must remain anonymous, suffice to say that I am personally responsible for the fire safety provisions in many hundreds of buildings in the UK.   If someone attempted to promote the use of this device to aid evacuation of occupants in the event of a fire to me then I would, without hesitation show them the door.  This may seem unfair, but you may have little appreciation of the number of 'revolutionary' devices someone in my postion gets offered as the panacea to all their problems.

I would re-iterate:  if the building has decent management, means of escape, emergency lighting and fire exit signage then an installed Simline would appear to have little value TO THE OCCUPANTS.  If a building does not have those risk reduction measures, then spend your money on them, not a tactile wayfinding device.  

The number of people killed in their own houses, a mere few metres from a familiar route to safety, amply supports my statement on the ability to evacuate through smoke thick enough to obscure vision.

Your device would appear to have shown some benefit to fire-fighters.  I would advise you to concentrate on that.

Offline Billy

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Braille Escape Route Signs
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2004, 09:44:34 PM »
Guest

I take on board your points, and you obviously have more knowledge than me in fire safety matters.
 You have stated that if the Simline was pre-fitted, it would have little value to the occupants, and I make no apologies that my primary concern is of firefighter safety, but also think that in certain circumstances, it could benefit the occupants.

I still believe that there are structures such as mines, Oil rigs and refineries, ships and certain buildings that would benefit from the Simline being permanently fitted and I am aware that some M.O.D. premises already have guidelines permanently fitted.

I appreciate your comments and will always take on board sound balanced points, which you have given, and also backed up with facts that are difficult to argue against.

Thanks again

Offline Ian Currie

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Braille Escape Route Signs
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2004, 11:45:25 PM »
Billy
I have followed your promotion of the 'Simline' with interest but , regarding the evacuation of buildings , I agree with the last guest. The 'Simline' certainly appears to be a significant improvement on the current BA guide line, which was designed in the days when firemen went into jobs using their bare hands and BA was the OiC's decision. (I know, I was there!). In those days you could easily feel the tabs and count the knots (it was the knots that indicated the long way in and the short way out guys, not trying to tell whether the tabs were different lengths). With the advent of H&S and lovely thick firefighting gloves everything to do with guide lines became much more difficult. Despite their drawbacks however, they are still the best method we have of operating within a complex structure which ensures, to a reasonable extent, the H&S of the crews, and any improvement is to be welcomed.

But operational firefighting is far removed from building occupants evacuating  in the early stages of a fire. It's already been pointed out that if people are evacuating through smoke thick enough to need a tactile guidance system then something has gone very badly wrong indeed. That sounds more like an aircraft fire scenario than a structure fire.

It also ignores the behavioural aspect. Perhaps an experienced fireman (sorry - Firefighter) can operate in thick smoke and still evacuate safely but I doubt that few members of the public, encountering thick acrid smoke for the first time in their lives, would be calm and collected enough to follow a guide line. Whether itsmines or oil platfarms, or even the disciplined environs of an MoD establishment, few have direct experience of the effects of smoke. I would guess that any guide lines fitted would be provided for the benefit of fire crews, not evacuation, and anyway, the fire crews may not enter through the fire exit that people should be using so the guide lines might not benefit the evacuees at all.

 A robust evacuation plan with effective procedures to ensure  that everyone can get themselves out, or are provided with assistance if necessary, backed up with adequate training is, I believe, the best solution.

The 'Simline' sounds like the most promising BA guide line improvement I have yet heard of but be carefull that your enthusiasm  doesn't get it associated with other 'great' safety ideas like rope ladders in lockers and self actuating fire extinguishers which were about as practical as the Sinclair C5.  I think that that that would be a real loss.

Offline Billy

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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2004, 09:14:02 PM »
Thanks for the advice IAN and GUEST

I do take on board your points and I can assure you that my main priority is getting the UK Brigades to adopt the new design as we all know the present one doesn't work with our PPE.

But I also think that you are doing your fellow Fire consultants a slight  dis-service when you say that under no account would you consider using a tactile guidance system permanently fitted within certain premises.

The consultants who are experts in their field have admitted that under certain circumstances, and within certain structures, the Simline permanently fitted would increase the chances of workers or occupants when escaping in an emergency situation.

I also concede that in most buildings, the Fire safety officers would make the evacuation measures more than sufficient, without the use of a tactile guidance system.

Again, thanks for the advice and I won't let my enthusiasm let it get associated with other "so called "great safety ideas and that is I am now marketing the Simline specifically to women whose husbands cannot seem to find their way home from the Pub at night!
"JUST KIDDING"

Offline Ian Currie

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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2004, 07:14:21 PM »
Sounds a lot better than counting the lamp posts, where did you say I can buy one?

Offline Mr. P

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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2004, 08:51:01 AM »
Thought the point of fire safety was that the public get out before they are put to further risk where a line would come in handy.