Fixing of cabling and detector heads

[Midland Retty]

Hi folks

Apologies if this issue has already been discussed (i did trawl through previous topics )

I need information on the securing of fire alarm cabling / detecor heads / panels etc etc to walls and ceilings containing asbestos.

In other words can detector heads / cabling etc be secured without the need for drilling and if so are there any specific materials to be used.

As always you advice / wisdom would be gratefully appreciated.

[Davo]

Retty

Need to read the premises asbestos survey to establish risk rating etc first.
If its say artex the recent relaxation in the law will allow this to be done in  a manner recommended by the Asbestos trades bodies. There are some recent guidlines from such as Asbestos Information Centre dated last September.

Easy way round it is of course wire-free.


davo

[David Rooney]

Fit a radio system....... less fixings .....!!!......

[Clevelandfire]

Fit a radio system....... less fixings .....!!!......

Still there are fixings none the less

You can get glue adhesive I beleive Retty to secure cabling and equipment - not sure if BS 5839 covers it though

[Graeme]

no nails the trunking and u-box.

you don't have much choice and impossble to comply with 5839-1.

[David Rooney]

Fit a radio system....... less fixings .....!!!......

Still there are fixings none the less

You can get glue adhesive I beleive Retty to secure cabling and equipment - not sure if BS 5839 covers it though

Yes but in the true spirit of risk assessment, less fixings = less disturbance = less airbourne particles etc etc.

We've used that no nails double sided tape before and not had any problems...

If it is just one particular area of the building, use a hybrid hardwired/radio system....

[Clevelandfire]

Fit a radio system....... less fixings .....!!!......

Still there are fixings none the less

You can get glue adhesive I beleive Retty to secure cabling and equipment - not sure if BS 5839 covers it though

Yes but in the true spirit of risk assessment, less fixings = less disturbance = less airbourne particles etc etc.

We've used that no nails double sided tape before and not had any problems...

If it is just one particular area of the building, use a hybrid hardwired/radio system....

Can you do that under BS 5839 though?

[David Rooney]

What you mean...?.... use a hybrid wired/radio fire alarm system??

Yes you can.... Ziton do one with EMS, Apollo do one with Expander (EMS) Notifier do their own version but you can also buy an "open protocol" version using Argus Vega protocol, complying to the as yet draft EN54-25.... tis a very good system.

[Midland Retty]

I think the poster wanted to know if you can use "no nails" or similar to secure components of a fire alarm system - I mean I know you can but can you do so in the eyes of BS 5839

[Wiz]

I think the poster wanted to know if you can use "no nails" or similar to secure components of a fire alarm system - I mean I know you can but can you do so in the eyes of BS 5839

My understanding is that BS 5839 recommends the cable fixings must offer equal fire-resistance as the cable. The adhesive manufacturer must confirm whether it does this - I would find it hard to believe that it could!

[Midland Retty]

yes thats what I thought Dr Wiz - Im just racking mr brain for cost effect solutiosn of mounting fire alarm system components onto a ceiling containing asbestos... not sure they will go for a radio link fire alarm system and as already pointed you still have to fix certain components to the wall and ceilings etc.

[Owen66]

I looked into adhesives that would meet at least the same degree of fire resilience as the cabling a few years back for exactly the same situation (Large comprehensive school with asbestos ceiling tiles and wall panelling).  Ultimately we failed to identify a suitable product.

In order to effect a solution we used a wireless system (EMS I recall) stuck to the tiles with grip fix (on the assumption that if a fire had actually taken hold in the vicinity of a device then all bets would be off anyway for BS 5839 compliance)

To be fair this approach was a temporary solution (max 5 years) pending a total refurbishment of the building (inc asbestos removal)

Regards

Owen

[Midland Retty]

Thanks Owen that info is very useful - I agree with you that so long as the detector activates and raises the alarm it doesnt really matter if it then falls off the ceiling!

[David Rooney]

Thanks Owen that info is very useful - I agree with you that so long as the detector activates and raises the alarm it doesnt really matter if it then falls off the ceiling!

Exactly that.

With no cables involved you are not worried about keeping critical signal paths available therefore no need to worry about cable fixings. If the fire is hot enough to melt the glue on the detector base then you probably have rather more pressing concerns .....!!

[Graeme]

Thanks Owen that info is very useful - I agree with you that so long as the detector activates and raises the alarm it doesnt really matter if it then falls off the ceiling!

it does.

have you seen the price of them?...